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Old 10-26-2010, 07:13 PM   #76
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Perhaps, though not by ignorance.

But from a perspecitive from us those of us who experience more than a couple of decades of life. This war is not going to be won. At least not by the west and the UN. You cannot change culture or deep seeded belief.
Oh, it's most definitely ignorance.
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:12 PM   #77
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Painting rash generalizations about entire races/countries/regions saddens me, and that's what I've seen here. I'm not sure you can engage in thoughtful discussion when you ignore so much of what's going on in the Middle East. Your posts display a tremendous amount of naivety in regards to the Middle East region.
When did I make generalizations?
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:20 PM   #78
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Thanks Pac mule. At least we know you will be a little safer. Heck, maybe by the time you are done with your training. President Obama will realize how corrupt the Afghanistan and Pakistan governments really are with their support of the Taliban. This way the Marines can do what they have always done best. Help folks when a natural disastor strikes.

When our military goes into countries where there have been floods or earthquakes. People are happy to see them. I know. I would be.

Sorry, if I sound bitter. But, screw the Middle East. I remember when Americans were held as "guest" when the Iranians had over thrown their own government. Certain countries don't give a damn about us. So why should we care? There are plenty of nations who would love our military to come in and build roads, schools and run piping for clean water. They wouldn't shoot us in the back, either.
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That's absolutly true. The only reason were fighting is to keep Al Qeada on the run so they cannot attack us on our own soil ever again. Honestly though, for that threat to be ridden I personally believe the battle needs to be expanded to Pakistan. Thats where most attacks in Afghanistan are being staged from, and thats where fucking Bin Laden is, even though they refuse to admit it. Who the fuck cares about their national soverignty? They need to step up to the fucking plate and own up to what they've done/are doing. They can start by securing their border regions. Then it would be nice if they cough bin laden up. They KNOW he's there, and I bet many people in their government know where.

Instead they're sticking their dicks in the sand and looking the other way, all the while secretly supporting Al-Qeada.


If they're not going to act then I think we should. The war in Afghanistan is going to drag on and on. If were going to fight a war then fucking fight it right. War doesn't subject itself to national boundaries. One of the biggest reasons we lost Vietnam was because we let the VC use bordering countries to supply themselves and move troops. But when we finally did something about that, congress said OH how dare we? terrible, terrible...and then we didn't touch them again. Our government (congress particularly) hasn't allowed us to properly fight a war since WWII. If you don't adapt to the situation at hand, you're going to lose.

Anyways thats my two cents, not that those in charge would ever have the balls to do such a thing, and the UN would bitch us out like usual.


Sorry you had to hear that! /end rant
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:34 PM   #79
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I didn't really generalize that much. What exactly do you not agree with?
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:14 PM   #80
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Oh, it's most definitely ignorance.
Perhaps, you can enlighten us?

I certainly don't understand what you mean about our ignorance verses what you know. You make these blanket comments and don't bother to explain your point of view.

I would be interested in reading with an open mind.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:17 PM   #81
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I didn't really generalize that much. What exactly do you not agree with?
Pac mule, I understand what you are saying. Agree or disagree, it dosen't matter. You have the right to your opinion.

People tend to keep their post short. Since, reading the novel length of it would be boring. You bring up the key points of what you want to say. That is what most of us do.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:02 PM   #82
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1. "But, screw the Middle East. I remember when Americans were held as 'guest' when the Iranians had over thrown their own government. Certain countries don't give a damn about us. So why should we care? There are plenty of nations who would love our military to come in and build roads, schools and run piping for clean water. They wouldn't shoot us in the back, either."

"Screw the Middle East"? Who, exactly are we supposed to say that to? And what entire countries of people don't give a damn about us?

2. "Who the fuck cares about their national soverignty?"


Who would be ignorant enough not to care about national sovereignty? It's actually a huge consideration.

3. "They need to step up to the fucking plate and own up to what they've done/are doing. They can start by securing their border regions. Then it would be nice if they cough bin laden up. They KNOW he's there, and I bet many people in their government know where. Instead they're sticking their dicks in the sand and looking the other way, all the while secretly supporting Al-Qeada."

Do you understand how broken up Pakistan is as a nation? How broken up most middle Eastern nations are (i.e. the issue of the Kurds and Kurdistan)?
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:29 PM   #83
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Thanks Phils for your reply. I am no expert on the Middle East at all and only wish for a peaceful solution. I do care about what happens.

I wonder if we are actually helping or making the situation worst. Again, I don't know. I think we only have privy to certain information. And we know that can be bias.
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:35 PM   #84
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Who would be ignorant enough not to care about national sovereignty? It's actually a huge consideration.
Sorry, I was ranting when I said that. Of course it is a huge consideration, but as I was saying war doesn't confine itself to national boundaries. You have to weight your options I guess.


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Do you understand how broken up Pakistan is as a nation?
Yes. A lot support Al-Qeada and Pakistan's taliban. A lot of people are disgusted by them and support the west. Unfortunately, the Taliban in Pakistan keep them too scared to do anything. (Police officers beheadings on tape, etc.) Its all a really messed up situation.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:51 PM   #85
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Va man charged in fake bomb plot against DC subway
By ALICIA A. CALDWELL, Associated Press Alicia A. Caldwell, Associated Press – 21 mins ago

WASHINGTON – A Pakistani-born Virginia man was arrested Wednesday and charged with trying to help people posing as al-Qaida operatives plot to bomb Washington area subway stations.

The bombing plot was a ruse over the past six months, the FBI said, but 34-year-old Farooque Ahmed readily handed over video of northern Virginia subway stations, suggested using rolling suitcases rather than backpacks to kill as many people as possible and offered to donate money to al-Qaida's cause overseas.

The public never was in danger because FBI agents were aware of Ahmed's activities and monitored him throughout, the agency said. And the people that Ahmed thought were al-Qaida operatives were actually individuals who "worked on behalf of the government in this matter," according to a federal law enforcement official who requested anonymity to discuss details of the case.

Ahmed was indicted under seal by a federal grand jury in Alexandria, Va. on Tuesday, and the charges were made public Wednesday. He is accused of attempting to provide material support to a designated terrorist organization, collecting information to assist in planning a terrorist attack on a transit facility, and attempting to provide material support to carry out multiple bombings to cause mass casualties. Ahmed, a naturalized citizen, lives in Ashburn, Va., outside Washington.

During a brief court appearance in federal court in Alexandria, Ahmed did not enter a plea and was ordered held without bond. He told U.S. Magistrate Judge John Anderson he couldn't afford to hire a lawyer. Prosecutors said they planned to use some classified information as evidence in the case.

U.S. Attorney Neil MacBride said in a statement that it was "chilling that a man from Ashburn is accused of casing rail stations with the goal of killing as many Metro riders as possible through simultaneous bomb attacks."

Federal investigators said that, starting in April, Ahmed met several times with people he believed were al-Qaida operatives. During one of those meetings, investigators said, he agreed to watch and photograph a hotel in Washington and a subway station in Arlington, Va. He also was accused of recording video of an Arlington subway station on four occasions, and agreeing to get security information about two stations.

According to the indictment:

_Ahmed took video of four northern Virginia subway stations — Arlington Cemetery, Courthouse, Pentagon City and Crystal City, which is near the Pentagon — and monitored security at a hotel in the District of Columbia. In a series of meetings at hotels in northern Virginia, Ahmed provided the videos to someone he believed was part of a terrorist organization and said he wanted to donate $10,000 help the overseas fight and collect donations in a way that would not raise red flags.

_In a Sept. 28 meeting in a Herndon, Va. hotel, Ahmed also suggested that terror operatives use rolling suitcases to blow up the subway instead of backpacks. During that same meeting Ahmed said he wanted to kill as many military personnel as possible and suggested an additional attack on a Crystal City subway station.

The indictment alleges he also handed over diagrams of the Arlington subway stations and gave suggestions about where to put explosives on trains to kill the most people in simultaneous attacks planned for 2011.


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At the White House, press secretary Robert Gibbs said President Barack Obama was aware of the investigation before Ahmed was arrested. Gibbs also offered assurances that the public was never in danger.

In a statement, David Kris, assistant attorney general for national security, said the case "demonstrates how the government can neutralize such threats before they come to fruition."

"Farooque Ahmed is accused of plotting with individuals he believed were terrorists to bomb our transit system, but a coordinated law enforcement and intelligence effort was able to thwart his plans," Kris said.

Andrew Ames, a spokesman for the FBI Washington field office, declined to comment on how authorities learned about Ahmed.

Ahmed faces up to 50 years in prison if convicted.

A LinkedIn page that was created for Farooque Ahmed identifies him as a network planning engineer with a bachelor's degree in computer science from the City College of New York in 2003, during the same period that other records showed he had been living in New York.

___

Associated Press writer Eileen Sullivan contributed to this report.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:42 PM   #86
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Phils, if you have the time and would want to post. I would be interested in reading your thougts on this. Again it would be my respect and an open mind. I will not put you down for your opinion.

Thanks in advance. I like to learn other perspectives. It helps me to understand the situation in a better way.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:17 AM   #87
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BBC News - Newsnight - US soldier on aftermath of WikiLeaks Apache attack

Sad.
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Old 10-29-2010, 07:39 AM   #88
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Thanks Canadiens for the article. I agree. It is very sad. We need to leave. Too many innocent people are being killed.

With the flooding in Pakistan our military has the ability to give humanitarian aid. Food, clean water and medicines are desperated needed. Also, shelter and hospital care. We have hospital ships. Winning the hearts and minds of people is to help them. Not kill their families.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:48 AM   #89
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Thanks Canadiens for the article. I agree. It is very sad. We need to leave. Too many innocent people are being killed.

With the flooding in Pakistan our military has the ability to give humanitarian aid. Food, clean water and medicines are desperated needed. Also, shelter and hospital care. We have hospital ships. Winning the hearts and minds of people is to help them. Not kill their families.
^Yup. I would rather see U.S. food aid rations being eaten at an Al Qaeda training camp than dead civilians from an errant US/UN attack.
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:15 PM   #90
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Anddddd explosives found in a plane from Yemen. Awesome.
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