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Old 11-10-2009, 08:40 AM   #1
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SPLIT--> Women in the Military

I'm not up for reading all of this-but I remember posting here one time to someone here about not underestimating women in the military, they just might save your life one day. I guess she was technically civilian that day, still not sure about that. Doesn't matter but she had plenty of courage that day- equal to any man's.

But I still don't believe that Bono was talking about women using firepower as being the new revelation. I think he means what's in their intellect and their emotional intelligence. That's more powerful than any gun. That's the real power of femininity-not sexy boots or guns.






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Old 11-10-2009, 09:39 AM   #2
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I'm not up for reading all of this-but I remember posting here one time to someone here about not underestimating women in the military, they just might save your life one day. I guess she was technically civilian that day, still not sure about that. Doesn't matter but she had plenty of courage that day- equal to any man's.
Yes, I recall a discussion of that sort, regarding women and combat arms. I do not believe it has to do with courage (or lack of it). It has to do with the sexual/morale problems that it would cause in the field or battlezone (among other things). Commanders have much more important things to manage during missions than jealousies, sexual misconduct, lover's quarrels, temptation, favoritism...etc.

There is also (dare I say) the issue of physical strength and endurance. Yes, I know there are some women that can carry 100 pound ruck sack for 25 miles, but not many - and certainly not enough to change an entire military organization. I will get blasted for this, but I've done my share of carrying two rucksacks because the women in Officer Candidate School couldn't go on without help - and these were not combat missions, simply 10 to 12 mile road marches.

Before you get too upset with me, realize that even the Federal government understands that men and women are physically different. There are always two standards in physical fitness tests - one for men, and one for women. The physical demands on today's US Infantry soldier are not much less than a professional athlete (in Special Forces - perhaps even more demanding). Would you seriously demand women be forced to play in the NFL, NBA, Premier League...etc?

All that said, if the story is true, this woman was heroic and I thank God she prevented the tragedy from being worse than it was.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:49 AM   #3
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Commanders have much more important things to manage during missions than jealousies, sexual misconduct, lover's quarrels, temptation, favoritism...etc.
Jealousy, quarrels, temptation, and favoritism are not exclusive to romantic relationships.

You and I will never agree on this topic, but I just find your logic to be weak, and not consitent with your other stances.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:17 AM   #4
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Jealousy, quarrels, temptation, and favoritism are not exclusive to romantic relationships.

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No, but they are essentially guaranteed (and much stronger) - and they dramtically compound the existing issues of managing young men fresh out of high scool. The last thing a sergeant or lieutenant needs to worry about is whether PFC Doe is going to frag his squad leader for looking at his girl, whether or not he will be seen as showing favoritism for carrying the woman's gear...the list of examples can go on forever.

And yes, there are already emotional/social problems between male soldiers - my point is that it isn't necessary or beneficial to compound them to the umph degree.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:19 AM   #5
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Yes, I recall a discussion of that sort, regarding women and combat arms. I do not believe it has to do with courage (or lack of it). It has to do with the sexual/morale problems that it would cause in the field or battlezone (among other things). Commanders have much more important things to manage during missions than jealousies, sexual misconduct, lover's quarrels, temptation, favoritism...etc.

There is also (dare I say) the issue of physical strength and endurance. Yes, I know there are some women that can carry 100 pound ruck sack for 25 miles, but not many - and certainly not enough to change an entire military organization. I will get blasted for this, but I've done my share of carrying two rucksacks because the women in Officer Candidate School couldn't go on without help - and these were not combat missions, simply 10 to 12 mile road marches.

Before you get too upset with me, realize that even the Federal government understands that men and women are physically different. There are always two standards in physical fitness tests - one for men, and one for women. The physical demands on today's US Infantry soldier are not much less than a professional athlete (in Special Forces - perhaps even more demanding). Would you seriously demand women be forced to play in the NFL, NBA, Premier League...etc?

All that said, if the story is true, this woman was heroic and I thank God she prevented the tragedy from being worse than it was.

If it's true? As long as you aren't questioning it because it's a woman. By all eyewitness accounts it's true-yes there was a guy involved too. They're both going to be on Oprah tomorrow if you want to hear directly from them.

We've gone in circles about this before-grown ass men and women can work together without everything being about sex and relationships. Yes that happens but we can have self control. Like I've told you before, I think you really do your own gender a disservice by your perception of all of that as indicated here.

What the heck does carrying a rucksack have do do with all of this? What about mental strength and toughness? I've had to to many/all physical tasks myself because I never had a father who treated me like any kind of princess and did it for me, and I don't have a male to do it for me now. I take out and put in ac units, I lift and move very heavy things-all by myself. Determination to do it is half the battle. Or more than half. I don't sit around whining that I need a male to do it for me. I just get it done.

I think you're getting so hung up on all of that that you can't see the forest through the trees. Why can't you just see females as your partners in your overall mission and forget about things such as rucksacks? That's what partners do-work together while compensating for each other's "weaknesses". I also highly doubt that all of the males in the military possess equal strengths.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:25 AM   #6
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And yes, there are already emotional/social problems between male soldiers - my point is that it isn't necessary or beneficial to compound them to the umph degree.
That's no justification for denying women opportunities. In a workplace people just need to behave professionally. Unless you want to live in a society that denies females opportunities because men are just ruled by their sexual desires (they're not but that's what you seem to believe?)? So rather than controlling that and being professional, let's just exclude women. Yep, that's fair. After all, being female is not a choice-just like being black isn't.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:31 AM   #7
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What the heck does carrying a rucksack have do do with all of this?
Actually, quite a bit. Please look up the training US Army Ranger School.

And yes, I agree, mental toughness is more important. But it's of little use in the Infantry if you can't actually make it to the battle because you can't carry your gear.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:35 AM   #8
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In a workplace people just need to behave professionally.
In a workplace - do you shower, sleep, and eat together everyday - 24 hours a day? They are not the same environment.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:59 AM   #9
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strong, clear headed thinking


what does this mean?
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:39 PM   #10
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what does this mean?
something you wouldn't comprehend nor appreciate.





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Old 11-10-2009, 12:42 PM   #11
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something you wouldn't comprehend nor appreciate.
You really are a piece of work.
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:44 PM   #12
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No, but they are essentially guaranteed (and much stronger)
I'd like you to try and prove this one...

Guaranteed? You really honestly don't believe men can keep it in their pants do you? Is this part of the masculine ideal you talk about teaching your kid?

And much stronger? Let's not forget the first reported murder was between two brothers and a woman had nothing to do with it...
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Old 11-10-2009, 12:59 PM   #13
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"is one woe feels deeply and loves fiecely"? What is that, some second-year ESL student's graphics project?

And (no way to put this discreetly) the fact that the accompanying pic is about f***ability rather than the cloying tripe listed to the side speaks volumes.


(p.s. hi AEON, nice to see you around)
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:06 PM   #14
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I'd like you to try and prove this one...

Guaranteed? You really honestly don't believe men can keep it in their pants do you?
I guess you're right. Having a woman eating, sleeping, showering with thirty teenage boys day in and day out wouldn't cause any problems.

BTW- I am not just worried about the men keeping their hands to themselves. In the military, it seems women are just as (if not more) aggressive than their male counterparts.
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Old 11-10-2009, 01:10 PM   #15
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something you wouldn't comprehend nor appreciate.
So you have to be attracted to their sex in order to comprehend or appreciate? So you can't appreciate "strong, clear headed thinking" men?

Once again, I really wish you would read your posts sometimes...
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