SPLIT--> Illegal Immigration

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If he was so good, he would not have gotten booted. Drivers licenses for illegals was enough to tell me about the quality of his judgment.

Maybe this is something you can explain to me since it's an argument I don't get at all.

If you have millions of illegals and you know they are there and you know they are driving, why wouldn't you want them to actually be properly tested, licensed and insured on the roads?
 
Maybe this is something you can explain to me since it's an argument I don't get at all.

If you have millions of illegals and you know they are there and you know they are driving, why wouldn't you want them to actually be properly tested, licensed and insured on the roads?

You have got to be kidding? Yeah, getting car insurance, so they are abiding by the CA state law requiring it, I'm sure is very high up on the list of desires for illegals in this state. Why dont we give them all Social Security numbers too? Hell, since we are in the giving mood for people that are breaking the law, lets allow them to vote too.
 
It seems to me like the alternative is to bury your head in the sand.

These people are not going anywhere. That is the reality whether you like it or not. You won't be massively deporting tens of millions of people.

That said, what is the most reasonable way of dealing with them? Why do you think none of them want to be insured? Seems to me that most of them would love to be fully participating members of the American society.

I have very much enjoyed living in the US. The people are very nice and much more welcoming than in most other places in the world (sorry, Europeans). But I think that there is a lot of really deep xenophobia in the US that I think is really ugly, it reminds me of some places in Europe actually in that regard.
 
You have got to be kidding? Yeah, getting car insurance, so they are abiding by the CA state law requiring it, I'm sure is very high up on the list of desires for illegals in this state. Why dont we give them all Social Security numbers too? Hell, since we are in the giving mood for people that are breaking the law, lets allow them to vote too.

So the best thing to do is close your eyes and hope an unskilled uninsured driver doesn't hit you? That makes a lot of sense...
 
So the best thing to do is close your eyes and hope an unskilled uninsured driver doesn't hit you? That makes a lot of sense...

Your kidding too right? So getting a license makes you a better driver? Have you ever been on a freeway in LA??

Do you really feel giving legal documentation to people the are illegally in this country is a good idea? If they would be willing to go through the process of getting a license, shouldn't they be willing to go through the process of getting a green card and coming into the country legally?
 
Your kidding too right? So getting a license makes you a better driver? Have you ever been on a freeway in LA??

Do you really feel giving legal documentation to people the are illegally in this country is a good idea? If they would be willing to go through the process of getting a license, shouldn't they be willing to go through the process of getting a green card and coming into the country legally?

No, a license does not guarantee a better driver, but it insures you that they at least have a basic knowledge of the laws and have driven a car before.

Do you know the process of getting a green card? It's not at easy as going to the DMV. In fact most of these programs proposed that it be part of the process of becoming legal.

I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would want them to just continue driving without knowledge of the laws and uninsured. I think it's a great first step.
 
No, a license does not guarantee a better driver, but it insures you that they at least have a basic knowledge of the laws and have driven a car before.

Do you know the process of getting a green card? It's not at easy as going to the DMV. In fact most of these programs proposed that it be part of the process of becoming legal.

I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would want them to just continue driving without knowledge of the laws and uninsured. I think it's a great first step.

So if we were to give them licenses, do you feel it would be fair for them to be able to read and speak English or do we give in and have the test in Spanish?
 
Your kidding too right? So getting a license makes you a better driver? Have you ever been on a freeway in LA??

Do you really feel giving legal documentation to people the are illegally in this country is a good idea? If they would be willing to go through the process of getting a license, shouldn't they be willing to go through the process of getting a green card and coming into the country legally?

I wasn't aware that Lou Dobbs had registered for an account, here. :)
 
So if we were to give them licenses, do you feel it would be fair for them to be able to read and speak English or do we give in and have the test in Spanish?

People in Canada are able to take the written portion of the test in a multitude of languages.

But then again we also have universal healthcare and legalized gay marriage so we're probably a lost cause.
 
So the best thing to do is close your eyes and hope an unskilled uninsured driver doesn't hit you? That makes a lot of sense...


Back in the 80s/90s my dad got into an accident from an uninsured, possibly unlicensed (I can't recall that part), driver from south of the border. Don't know if he fixed the car or not (if it was just cosmetic damage).

:sigh:
 
So if we were to give them licenses, do you feel it would be fair for them to be able to read and speak English or do we give in and have the test in Spanish?

We've had English and Spanish driver's test since the 80's here in TX, but you know, Texas is such a liberal state.
 
You have got to be kidding? Yeah, getting car insurance, so they are abiding by the CA state law requiring it, I'm sure is very high up on the list of desires for illegals in this state. Why dont we give them all Social Security numbers too? Hell, since we are in the giving mood for people that are breaking the law, lets allow them to vote too.

Why are people so paranoid about Hispanic immigrants? They are some of the hardest working minorities and they really do try to make it in our society. It's not like they want to pick the lettuce for 50 cents an hour.

If anything, the United States should celebrate the fact that so many people want to live in this great country of ours. They are willing to die to get here.

I'm not saying that they didn't commit a crime, but can you blame them when you take a look at their heads of state? They're here already, they're already picking your vegetables and cleaning your hotel rooms, give them what they want: human equality and dignity.
My entire family is composed of those same Hispanic immigrants. Sure my grandparents never learned to speak English properly, but they can manage, and they can follow laws and vote for a President. (You might be happier to hear that these people in particular are voting for McCain!)
My parents arrived in adolescence and speak English just as well as Spanish. As for myself (and countless other families) I was taught Spanish for the first four years of my life. I speak English better than Spanish, but I'm very grateful that I know two languages, even in a country that seems to turn up its nose on Spanish-speakers... as if we are some sort of plague.
 
Why are people so paranoid about Hispanic immigrants? They are some of the hardest working minorities and they really do try to make it in our society. It's not like they want to pick the lettuce for 50 cents an hour.

If anything, the United States should celebrate the fact that so many people want to live in this great country of ours. They are willing to die to get here.

I'm not saying that they didn't commit a crime, but can you blame them when you take a look at their heads of state? They're here already, they're already picking your vegetables and cleaning your hotel rooms, give them what they want: human equality and dignity.
My entire family is composed of those same Hispanic immigrants. Sure my grandparents never learned to speak English properly, but they can manage, and they can follow laws and vote for a President. (You might be happier to hear that these people in particular are voting for McCain!)
My parents arrived in adolescence and speak English just as well as Spanish. As for myself (and countless other families) I was taught Spanish for the first four years of my life. I speak English better than Spanish, but I'm very grateful that I know two languages, even in a country that seems to turn up its nose on Spanish-speakers... as if we are some sort of plague.


oh it's typical rhetoric (that's been going on for years) coming from most republicans.. the statement doesn't surprise me at all..:shrug:
 
Why are people so paranoid about Hispanic immigrants? They are some of the hardest working minorities and they really do try to make it in our society. It's not like they want to pick the lettuce for 50 cents an hour.

If anything, the United States should celebrate the fact that so many people want to live in this great country of ours. They are willing to die to get here.

I'm not saying that they didn't commit a crime, but can you blame them when you take a look at their heads of state? They're here already, they're already picking your vegetables and cleaning your hotel rooms, give them what they want: human equality and dignity.
My entire family is composed of those same Hispanic immigrants. Sure my grandparents never learned to speak English properly, but they can manage, and they can follow laws and vote for a President. (You might be happier to hear that these people in particular are voting for McCain!)
My parents arrived in adolescence and speak English just as well as Spanish. As for myself (and countless other families) I was taught Spanish for the first four years of my life. I speak English better than Spanish, but I'm very grateful that I know two languages, even in a country that seems to turn up its nose on Spanish-speakers... as if we are some sort of plague.

:up: nice post.

i really wish i knew spanish.
 
Does American exceptionalism dictate English only?

English is my third language, although it is the one I am most proficient in at this point in time. French is my fourth.

Once upon a time, speaking multiple languages was a matter of pride. :hmm:
 
Does American exceptionalism dictate English only?

English is my third language, although it is the one I am most proficient in at this point in time. French is my fourth.

Once upon a time, speaking multiple languages was a matter of pride. :hmm:

i'm fairly certain that jefferson knew at least 5 languages.

tour guides at monticello give the exact number, but i can't recall it at the moment.
 
Why are people so paranoid about Hispanic immigrants? They are some of the hardest working minorities and they really do try to make it in our society. It's not like they want to pick the lettuce for 50 cents an hour.

If anything, the United States should celebrate the fact that so many people want to live in this great country of ours. They are willing to die to get here.

I'm not saying that they didn't commit a crime, but can you blame them when you take a look at their heads of state? They're here already, they're already picking your vegetables and cleaning your hotel rooms, give them what they want: human equality and dignity.
My entire family is composed of those same Hispanic immigrants. Sure my grandparents never learned to speak English properly, but they can manage, and they can follow laws and vote for a President. (You might be happier to hear that these people in particular are voting for McCain!)
My parents arrived in adolescence and speak English just as well as Spanish. As for myself (and countless other families) I was taught Spanish for the first four years of my life. I speak English better than Spanish, but I'm very grateful that I know two languages, even in a country that seems to turn up its nose on Spanish-speakers... as if we are some sort of plague.

Im just saying that there is a legal way to do it and there are those who are willing to go through the process and they should be rewarded for it not the one who are doing it illegally. Whats the incentive for people wanting to come here to seek work and seek opportunity to do so through legal channels if we are giving everything to those who are illegal?
 
Im just saying that there is a legal way to do it and there are those who are willing to go through the process and they should be rewarded for it not the one who are doing it illegally. Whats the incentive for people wanting to come here to seek work and seek opportunity to do so through legal channels if we are giving everything to those who are illegal?

Are you in favor of or against so-called amnesty policies - whereby if an immigrant is caught being here illegally, and he or she has not committed any other crimes in his or her time here, he or she can avoid deportation by immediately beginning the process of going through the proper channels for American citizenship(where the alternative is the strict no amnesty idea, where if you're caught, you're kicked right out and you have to go through the whole process from abroad before you can re-enter the country)?
 
Does American exceptionalism dictate English only?

English is my third language, although it is the one I am most proficient in at this point in time. French is my fourth.

Once upon a time, speaking multiple languages was a matter of pride. :hmm:

I guess I did not do a good job at making my point. It not purely an issue of language. The question is are you willing to acclimate to the culture of this country. Language is part of it. Are you willing to learn the language? If you are willing to risk your life sneaking through the desert to come into the country, would you be willing to learn the English?
 
If you are willing to risk your life sneaking through the desert to come into the country, would you be willing to learn the English?

The main problem with this statement is that it shows ignorance of how immigrants assimilate into society. For the most part--and this held true with many European immigrants in the early 20th century--the first generation immigrants often barely know enough English to get by, the second generation is bilingual, and the third generation often knows very little of their "native" language and is mainly conversant in English. Interestingly enough, Tiger Edge's family anecdotes about grandparents with a poor grasp of English, bilingual parents, and then himself being primarily English speaking are exactly as expected.

If you're concerned about the U.S. being dominated by Spanish someday, I think you have very little to worry about. But do I imagine the Spanish community being bilingual? It's very possible, considering the close proximity to Mexico. English, however, will remain very important and immigrants do learn it at the expected pace as described above.
 
Are you in favor of or against so-called amnesty policies - whereby if an immigrant is caught being here illegally, and he or she has not committed any other crimes in his or her time here, he or she can avoid deportation by immediately beginning the process of going through the proper channels for American citizenship(where the alternative is the strict no amnesty idea, where if you're caught, you're kicked right out and you have to go through the whole process from abroad before you can re-enter the country)?

Im not for amnesty, as with the licenses, I do not see why we should reward people who are breaking the law, BUT with the current situation we are in, I don't know what other alternatives we have. The problem is the dam is already burst and there is no way to get everyone that is illegally here, out. We should have secured our borders and established a reasonable system (not miles of red tape) for people to apply for entrance long ago. If we are going to offer amnesty I believe we need to:

1- Secure the border

2- Make the offer for a limited time for those who are here. If you apply you can have it, if you dont make the effort, than you should get kicked out if caught

3- By providing this we need to crack down on business the hire illegals. There will be an adequate work pool that have the right to be here. This will also keep business from treating illegals like a slave labor force.

4- Border Patrol and INS need to after the permission to do their job

5- Create a reasonable application system for people that want to come here legally in the future.

6- I would not allow these people given amnesty the opportunity to become citizens. They broke the law coming in and there should be some kind of price to pay for that. I think that is reasonable if we are allowing them to stay via amnesty.
 
6- I would not allow these people given amnesty the opportunity to become citizens. They broke the law coming in and there should be some kind of price to pay for that. I think that is reasonable if we are allowing them to stay via amnesty.

I guess it's real easy for those who have never had to make the decision of do I feed my kids or do I pay and wait for the legal way to become a citizen as my children starve, to have such a harsh stance.
 
Does American exceptionalism dictate English only?
Is there any greater proof of American exceptionalism than the fact that over the past 50 years people all over the world have felt the need to learn English, our language. In fact, English is now spoken by more people as a second language than as a native language.
Why is this, well because we have been at the forefront of technology and science, we have the largest economy and because, for good or bad, our popular culture reaches around the world. Previous superpowers spread their language through colonialism. We do it through the power of our ideas.
Once upon a time, speaking multiple languages was a matter of pride. :hmm:
There are many reasons why Americans haven't taken to foreign language study, the most obvious being what I just said, why learn their language when they can speak ours. But also isolation. We have two borders and one of those we share with another English speaking country. But you can find plenty of bilingual Americans living on our Southern border or around Quebec.

By the way, Barack Obama only speaks one language and he wants to be president of the world one day.
 
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