SPLIT--> Illegal Immigration

[BVS]

Is there any greater proof of American exceptionalism than the fact that over the past 50 years people all over the world have felt the need to learn English, our language. In fact, English is now spoken by more people as a second language than as a native language.
Why is this, well because we have been at the forefront of technology, we have the largest economy and because, for good or bad, our popular culture reaches around the world. Previous superpowers spread their language through colonialism. We do it through the power of our ideas.

There are many reasons why Americans haven't taken to foreign language study, the most obvious being what I just said, why learn their language when they can speak ours. But also isolation. We have two borders and one of those we share with another English speaking country. But you can find plenty of bilingual Americans living on our Southern border or around Quebec.

By the way, Barack Obama only speaks one language and he wants to be president of the world one day.

I'm not sure what to say. I've never seen such arrogance and ignorance in one post before, also with a touch of glorifying laziness...

Well done

 

[Lila64]

I wont even dignify this garbage with a comment.

 

[TheEdge U2JT]

Why is it garbage? Are you saying that's not the scenario at least some of the time?

Yeah, this will sound harsh but it is not my problem if you're from another country and cannot feed your kid. My country has programs to help people in situations like that. My tax dollars go to programs to help my fellow Americans that need a helping hand.

Also, many of these people who come here illegally are paying "coyotes," illegal immigrant smugglers 100's and 1000's of dollars to sneak them across the border. Where is that money coming from??

 

[mobvok]

Is there any greater proof of American exceptionalism than the fact that over the past 50 years people all over the world have felt the need to learn English, our language. In fact, English is now spoken by more people as a second language than as a native language.
Why is this, well because we have been at the forefront of technology and science, we have the largest economy and because, for good or bad, our popular culture reaches around the world. Previous superpowers spread their language through colonialism. We do it through the power of our ideas.

Yes, English. "Our language". A more modest person might suggest centuries of world wide British Imperial rule might *also* have created a favorable opportunity for English to take hold.

 

[BVS]

Yes, English. "Our language". A more modest person might suggest centuries of world wide British Imperial rule might *also* have created a favorable opportunity for English to take hold.

What are you doing? No facts allowed...

 

[BVS]

Yeah, this will sound harsh but it is not my problem if you're from another country and cannot feed your kid. My country has programs to help people in situations like that. My tax dollars go to programs to help my fellow Americans that need a helping hand.

At least you are honest. Hey man sorry, you were born 5 miles the wrong way you don't deserve the opportunies I have. Once again if it was you, you probably wouldn't be singing the same tune.

Oh, and because you want to be vendictive and not allow amnesty be prepared for food prices, manual labor, construction costs, etc to start to rise.

Also, many of these people who come here illegally are paying "coyotes," illegal immigrant smugglers 100's and 1000's of dollars to sneak them across the border. Where is that money coming from??

Truth? A lot of times it's from Americans who like the cheap labor. It's cheaper to bring the whole family over rather than pay a fair wage.

 

[INDY500]

I'm not sure what to say. I've never seen such arrogance and ignorance in one post before, also with a touch of glorifying laziness...

Well done

I can only assume you're too lazy to point out specific inaccuracies or alternative reasoning.

For instance, you might say that English is spoken around the world because it borrows so heavily from Latin, French, Scandinavian, Low German and other languages which they may already be familiar with.

Do you need any more help shooting me down?

 

[INDY500]

Yes, English. "Our language". A more modest person might suggest centuries of world wide British Imperial rule might *also* have created a favorable opportunity for English to take hold.

I think I gave colonialism a shoutout.

 

[BVS]

I can only assume you're too lazy to point out specific inaccuracies or alternative reasoning.

For instance, you might say that English is spoken around the world because it borrows so heavily from Latin, French, Scandinavian, Low German and other languages which they may already be familiar with.

Do you need anymore help shooting me down?

Believe me I started a point by point debate, but then erased it and decided it wasn't worth my time.

You are an intelligent man, and I don't think you even agree with what you wrote 100%.

One example: I know you don't believe fully that we are at the forefront of technology at this point given some of your previous posts in FYM.

 

[BAW]

Also, many of these people who come here illegally are paying "coyotes," illegal immigrant smugglers 100's and 1000's of dollars to sneak them across the border. Where is that money coming from??

Where is it coming from? Mostly from relatives that are already here, working their asses off for a better life, saving up sometimes for years...you know, the people who pick our fruit, wash our cars, mow our lawns, wash the dishes and cook the food in the restaurants we eat in, the maids who clean our hotel rooms.

 

[VintagePunk]

Yeah, this will sound harsh but it is not my problem if you're from another country and cannot feed your kid. My country has programs to help people in situations like that. My tax dollars go to programs to help my fellow Americans that need a helping hand.

Also, many of these people who come here illegally are paying "coyotes," illegal immigrant smugglers 100's and 1000's of dollars to sneak them across the border. Where is that money coming from??

You're right, it does sound harsh. What would Jesus do? Isn't that what you Christians ask yourselves? Or is human compassion bounded by borders?

 

[melon]

You're right, it does sound harsh. What would Jesus do? Isn't that what you Christians ask yourselves? Or is human compassion bounded by borders?

As we've learned, only Republicans are allowed to exploit Jesus for political purposes. Democrats are not allowed!

 

[VintagePunk]

As we've learned, only Republicans are allowed to exploit Jesus for political purposes. Democrats are not allowed!

If I could only count the number of times on here that I've been directly or indirectly told that I have no morals because I'm agnostic. But whatever. Glory to Jesus and his horse, and let the poor people die.

 

[corianderstem]

That's not a horse, that's a dinosaur. Don't you agnostics know ANYTHING about science?

 

[VintagePunk]

That's not a horse, that's a dinosaur. Don't you agnostics know ANYTHING about science?

 

[mobvok]

I think I gave colonialism a shoutout.

The phrase "American Exceptionalism" suggests something exclusive to America- but Britain used to be top dog. And in the 40s and 50s, America offered a familiar language, and similar principles of free trade/government. Yeah English has dominated through the spread of American culture, but the British Empire contributed a favorable environment for that spread. And that contribution from a foreign nation, no matter how big or how small, contradicts the idea of national Exceptionalism.

 

[U2DMfan]

I had European ancestors who came to this country in the 18th century on their own accord. When they got here they were basically allowed free reign to make a life for themselves as long as they obeyed the law. There was no immigration policy.

signed,
nearly all of White America

 

[TheEdge U2JT]

At least you are honest. Hey man sorry, you were born 5 miles the wrong way you don't deserve the opportunies I have. Once again if it was you, you probably wouldn't be singing the same tune.

Oh, and because you want to be vendictive and not allow amnesty be prepared for food prices, manual labor, construction costs, etc to start to rise.

You can say those things would rise but if you eliminate all the people that are here illegally the burden on our resources would be eased. Less traffic...we clearly saw this effect on the "day without immigrants" last year. Electricity, Water, Gas, Public services, Education funds,...there is a positive effect on all of it. We could pay more for food and services if we are not getting hit in all the other areas. Supply and demand.


[/QUOTE]Truth? A lot of times it's from Americans who like the cheap labor. It's cheaper to bring the whole family over rather than pay a fair wage.[/QUOTE]

Back at ya...Truth? Yeah, 12 Million illegals brought over by businesses looking for cheap labor. No, more often it is one coming here, getting a job and shipping all their money back south of the border for the next family member to be smuggled across. It is a fact that an insane amount of money from immigrants in California ends up back in Mexico. So much for these hard working immigrants investing back in the local economy.


I live in an area with an extremely high number of immigrants from the Far East. There is a large Koren population in the area. These people don't seem to have any problem going through the process to come here legally. I also know that they make an immediate effort to learn English. How is it they can do it? I know Canadians who are here working in the LA area...they did it legally too.

 

[TheEdge U2JT]

You're right, it does sound harsh. What would Jesus do? Isn't that what you Christians ask yourselves? Or is human compassion bounded by borders?

OK, so your saying that, as a Christian, I need to open up to all these people that cannot feed their kids? Maybe I should let them all stay at my house?

 

[Diemen]

OK, so your saying that, as a Christian, I need to open up to all these people that cannot feed their kids? Maybe I should let them all stay at my house?

To be honest, if we're going to follow the 'letter of the law' so to speak as far as the Bible's message and Christianity goes, shouldn't the answer to that be yes?

 

[VintagePunk]

OK, so your saying that, as a Christian, I need to open up to all these people that cannot feed their kids? Maybe I should let them all stay at my house?

Of course not. You're not even in favour of a benevolent government program that would accomplish some good for these people and requires absolutely no effort on your part whatsoever, so why would I think you would actively do something to help?

 

[VintagePunk]

To be honest, if we're going to follow the 'letter of the law' so to speak as far as the Bible's message and Christianity goes, shouldn't the answer to that be yes?

Well, it should be, but we'll just conveniently ignore that.

 

[TheEdge U2JT]

To be honest, if we're going to follow the 'letter of the law' so to speak as far as the Bible's message and Christianity goes, shouldn't the answer to that be yes?

Yes. I would love to help everyone in the world but that it not possible. Also, I will not be made to feel guilty because I was born in the United State. I'm blessed in that way. I have had great opportunity but I have also worked hard for it. I'm sure there is an opinion from some in here that I'm some cold hearted SOB that does not care about people in need. No one knows the charities that my wife and I give to and causes we support for people in need. Its sad that some will view an opinion on people coming to the US illegally as something to question a persons character.

I'm asked about amnesty, I say yes, and provide some reasonable rules and changes to our system. Do we have a rational debate about it..NO. Not even close! What I do get is attacked with what about a person trying to feed their kid? Way to go for the emotional, you cant be heartless enough to say a child should starve ploy! I though there could be a reasonable discussion about this but I was clearly wrong. I give up!

 

[Diemen]

Yes. I would love to help everyone in the world but that it not possible. Also, I will not be made to feel guilty because I was born in the United State. I'm blessed in that way. I have had great opportunity but I have also worked hard for it. I'm sure there is an opinion from some in here that I'm some cold hearted SOB that does not care about people in need. No one knows the charities that my wife and I give to and causes we support for people in need. Its sad that some will view an opinion on people coming to the US illegally as something to question a persons character.

I'm asked about amnesty, I say yes, and provide some reasonable rules and changes to our system. Do we have a rational debate about it..NO. Not even close! What I do get is attacked with what about a person trying to feed their kid? Way to go for the emotional, you cant be heartless enough to say a child should starve ploy! I though there could be a reasonable discussion about this but I was clearly wrong. I give up!

I hope you didn't take my comments as a personal attack. I'm definitely guilty of falling short in that respect as well. It's just that, well yes, I think if many who identify themselves as Christians truly were living up to the badge, then yes, opening up to those who can't feed their children and opening up our homes to those less fortunate might not be such a radical concept. Even those who may have done wrong/committed crimes.

But I don't want to turn this into a debate on Christianity. My apologies.

 

[INDY500]

The phrase "American Exceptionalism" suggests something exclusive to America- but Britain used to be top dog. And in the 40s and 50s, America offered a familiar language, and similar principles of free trade/government. Yeah English has dominated through the spread of American culture, but the British Empire contributed a favorable environment for that spread. And that contribution from a foreign nation, no matter how big or how small, contradicts the idea of national Exceptionalism.

Don't get me wrong. I'm "Mr. Defender of Western Civilization," I only feel the United States has become the latest holder of the baton in championing and moving it forward.
"American exceptionalism" has become a bit of a FYM inside joke where I play the old school "truth, justice and the American way" Superman to their moral-equivalence/multicultural/liberal-guilt-laden Lex Luthors.

 

[VintagePunk]

Yes. I would love to help everyone in the world but that it not possible. Also, I will not be made to feel guilty because I was born in the United State. I'm blessed in that way. I have had great opportunity but I have also worked hard for it. I'm sure there is an opinion from some in here that I'm some cold hearted SOB that does not care about people in need. No one knows the charities that my wife and I give to and causes we support for people in need. Its sad that some will view an opinion on people coming to the US illegally as something to question a persons character.

I'm asked about amnesty, I say yes, and provide some reasonable rules and changes to our system. Do we have a rational debate about it..NO. Not even close! What I do get is attacked with what about a person trying to feed their kid? Way to go for the emotional, you cant be heartless enough to say a child should starve ploy! I though there could be a reasonable discussion about this but I was clearly wrong. I give up!

I don't think you were attacked at all. All we did was point out the stark contrast between the way that you as a Christian should feel empathy for, and strive to ease the suffering of others according to the tenets of your religion (even in ways that really require no effort from you personally, at all), and the way you actually do feel about *some* of those less fortunate, from a political perspective. I would also like to point out that you were the one who came booming into this forum, proclaiming yourself a "conservative Christian." If you hadn't brought it up, it never would have been an issue.

And, therein lies the problem that I have with many conservative Christian types, certainly not just you. They seem to readily pick and choose who is deserving of that Christian understanding and charity, and who is not.

 

[Lila64]

 

[mobvok]

Don't get me wrong. I'm "Mr. Defender of Western Civilization," I only feel the United States has become the latest holder of the baton in championing and moving it forward.
"American exceptionalism" has become a bit of a FYM inside joke where I play the old school "truth, justice and the American way" Superman to their moral-equivalence/multicultural/liberal-guilt-laden Lex Luthors.

Ahh...ok then.

 

[Angela Harlem]

That's not a horse, that's a dinosaur. Don't you agnostics know ANYTHING about science?

What, horses evolved from dinosaurs???

 

[Angela Harlem]

To be honest, if we're going to follow the 'letter of the law' so to speak as far as the Bible's message and Christianity goes, shouldn't the answer to that be yes?

If you're going to combine this with the modern and practical doable route, isn't the next best thing to simply do as much as you can? As much as you can being supporting or pushing for changes in immigration law, to open your borders a little wider so that these millions may have a legal and fighting chance of helping themselves to a better life? I know no one wants to drag this down with the religious predicaments it raises, but how does this work, that the Christian right are not compelled by virtue of their own natures to reach out and try for change? How do you turn away from these illegal immigrants saying 'Sorry, illegal, no time for your story. Go home and start again the right way'? There is no Christianity in such closed-door views. There just isn't.