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Old 10-04-2008, 03:39 PM   #91
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Did you even read the article?
Yes. But, maybe you can explain it to me...
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:20 PM   #92
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Go to a Wal-Mart or Target on any given weekend and you'll find the place packed. We want things inexpensive.


But when pro-immigration people make the argument that immigrants are contributing to the US economy yet 2 Billion a month is going back to Mexico, that argument is pure BS.
Interesting that you mention these two points in the same post. Apparently Mexicans also want cheap products and go to their local Walmart (an AMERICAN company) to buy them! Wal-Mart de México Do they really contribute nothing (besides their cheap labor and local purchases)?
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:27 PM   #93
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I've read plenty of articles claiming that illegal immigrants are a net plus or a net minus on the economy.

But our southern border still shouldn't be the sieve that it is.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #94
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Yes. But, maybe you can explain it to me...
Oscar, Edge? You aren't going to defend this?
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:40 PM   #95
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Are you talking about the article I linked up?

It's basically that segregated education is not good for any country, including the people that are supposed to benefit from it. It eventually lowers standards to help escape threats of racism but in the end the students don't get what they need to join the workforce successfully.

I've seen many people complain about racism in our country but they usually have little command of English. There are people who are part of ethnic minorities that are very good at English and they do well. I find employers love ethnic minorities (sometimes for token reasons) because when they can work well and speak english well it makes them feel good. See that Seinfeld episode where he helps Babu. There are people who congratulate themselves just like that.

The most important thing is to get an education that supplies what the market is demanding. If you do that you will be successful. There are many people born in North America who are crappy at speaking and communicating, and guess what, they have little success. It's got to be the #1 skill you need in the market today.

There's lots of low self-esteem out there and I've seen some in my university classes that actually hate themselves. The right attitude is one of perserverance, and full effort. People give up before they give their full effort and it shows.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:46 PM   #96
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There are people who are part of ethnic minorities that are very good at English and they do well. I find employers love ethnic minorities (sometimes for token reasons) because when they can work well and speak english well it makes them feel good.
I speak three languages fluently and another one conversationally. How many do you speak?

I'm sure my employer feels just fantastic about how I can speak English. Must have been why I was hired.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:51 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Are you talking about the article I linked up?

It's basically that segregated education is not good for any country, including the people that are supposed to benefit from it. It eventually lowers standards to help escape threats of racism but in the end the students don't get what they need to join the workforce successfully.

I've seen many people complain about racism in our country but they usually have little command of English. There are people who are part of ethnic minorities that are very good at English and they do well. I find employers love ethnic minorities (sometimes for token reasons) because when they can work well and speak english well it makes them feel good. See that Seinfeld episode where he helps Babu. There are people who congratulate themselves just like that.

The most important thing is to get an education that supplies what the market is demanding. If you do that you will be successful. There are many people born in North America who are crappy at speaking and communicating, and guess what, they have little success. It's got to be the #1 skill you need in the market today.

There's lots of low self-esteem out there and I've seen some in my university classes that actually hate themselves. The right attitude is one of perserverance, and full effort. People give up before they give their full effort and it shows.
Quick question for you: Which employers do you know of that congratulate themselves for hiring ethnic minorities that have a strong command of English. Who, exactly, are they? How do you know they congratulate themselves? Did they brag about said hirings to you? And if so, why do you think they took the time to tell you this?
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:12 PM   #98
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Quick question for you: Which employers do you know of that congratulate themselves for hiring ethnic minorities that have a strong command of English. Who, exactly, are they? How do you know they congratulate themselves? Did they brag about said hirings to you? And if so, why do you think they took the time to tell you this?
In my accounting offices I worked at. They were quite liberal and they hired on a quota, but ultimately the ones who stayed could speak English better and the employers said so. My job requires me to talk to lots of people regarding their corporate and personal tax returns and people who can't speak English well get hung up on or the client complains to the boss. White people I've seen usually get fired quickly when they screw up but ethnic minorities get some extra time and the bosses are very politically correct around them. I've heard from government workers that the government hires based on quota. This is not unknown. It's called "employment equity."

Careers -- Employment equity

BTW they usually don't tell me but in group meetings when the said person is being talked about I'll be there to listen. Office work involves lots of talking behind people's back and it's part of the culture unfortunately. You can also observe preferential treatment and body language which gives it away. Political correctness is easy to see.

I've also met some who were racist as well. I remember a guy in university who HATED Chinese people and said he left Vancouver precisely because of that. There are definately people who are racist. My dad experienced some in the workforce as an immigrant but he always perservered and didn't give up. He also tried to find Canadian friends and improve his English which also helped. With crappy jobs he was able to save enough for retirement, which many of his arsehole bosses who made more money couldn't say. As long as you can bank a portion of your paycheque every month they can't truely stop you.
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Old 10-05-2008, 05:25 PM   #99
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I speak three languages fluently and another one conversationally. How many do you speak?

I'm sure my employer feels just fantastic about how I can speak English. Must have been why I was hired.
They want you to have skills but technical skills without communication skills will be held less important than people who have both skills.

I'm not against people speaking more than one language, but if you can't speak English well and the clientele don't speak other languages you are not supplying what people want. Bosses zero in on that because they don't want to lose clients. Also some clients are jerks and you have to supply them just to keep your small business afloat. You have to swallow all kinds of ego to keep a business running.

If you have a job that doesn't require much verbal communication then it doesn't matter I suppose but most service and professional jobs require some kind of public relations skills to compete.

Keeping to the topic, if someone is a Spanish speaker only and they want success in the U.S. I bet it's faster to learn English and join a school that everyone else joins and graduate with the general population. It's better than having 2nd tier education but have no ability to talk to clients.

If I went to work in Mexico I'm sure it's important for me to learn Spanish. I mean isn't that obvious?
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:44 PM   #100
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Are you talking about the article I linked up?

It's basically that segregated education is not good for any country, including the people that are supposed to benefit from it. It eventually lowers standards to help escape threats of racism but in the end the students don't get what they need to join the workforce successfully.
Well actually it speculated this... I find this article very humerous in the sense that it's complaining how Mexicans will eventually destroy our scientific edge, yet it completely ignores any scientific process or logic to come to it's conclusion. It mentions a study but it never states how these conclusions were derived.

But more importantly what does this have to do with ILLEGAL immigration??? Will you please answer this for me!!!
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:26 PM   #101
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Well actually it speculated this... I find this article very humerous in the sense that it's complaining how Mexicans will eventually destroy our scientific edge, yet it completely ignores any scientific process or logic to come to it's conclusion. It mentions a study but it never states how these conclusions were derived.

But more importantly what does this have to do with ILLEGAL immigration??? Will you please answer this for me!!!
Illegals want benefits from the U.S. and jobs. They complain they don't get enough so I'm saying it's faster to learn to speak English well and go to normal schools to achieve success than wait for the government to give it to them with a 2nd tier accreditation system. The ones who want to stay should learn English and get a job and struggle like the rest of us.

This is a part of the immigration story, not the whole story. I believe in tightening borders and deporting people sooner rather than later. The later it is the more likely they have found roots and would qualify for amnesty more than those who are caught right away. I don't see a foolproof system unless you want to seal off the border and extinguish trade. It would be hard to catch all of them.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:06 PM   #102
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Illegals want benefits from the U.S. and jobs. They complain they don't get enough so I'm saying it's faster to learn to speak English well and go to normal schools to achieve success than wait for the government to give it to them with a 2nd tier accreditation system. The ones who want to stay should learn English and get a job and struggle like the rest of us.

This is a part of the immigration story, not the whole story. I believe in tightening borders and deporting people sooner rather than later. The later it is the more likely they have found roots and would qualify for amnesty more than those who are caught right away. I don't see a foolproof system unless you want to seal off the border and extinguish trade. It would be hard to catch all of them.
So short answer, the article you posted has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

Well if Palin is the Queen of the non-answer, you could be her king.

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Old 10-05-2008, 09:04 PM   #103
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In my accounting offices I worked at. They were quite liberal and they hired on a quota, but ultimately the ones who stayed could speak English better and the employers said so. My job requires me to talk to lots of people regarding their corporate and personal tax returns and people who can't speak English well get hung up on or the client complains to the boss. White people I've seen usually get fired quickly when they screw up but ethnic minorities get some extra time and the bosses are very politically correct around them. I've heard from government workers that the government hires based on quota. This is not unknown. It's called "employment equity."

Careers -- Employment equity

BTW they usually don't tell me but in group meetings when the said person is being talked about I'll be there to listen. Office work involves lots of talking behind people's back and it's part of the culture unfortunately. You can also observe preferential treatment and body language which gives it away. Political correctness is easy to see.

I've also met some who were racist as well. I remember a guy in university who HATED Chinese people and said he left Vancouver precisely because of that. There are definately people who are racist. My dad experienced some in the workforce as an immigrant but he always perservered and didn't give up. He also tried to find Canadian friends and improve his English which also helped. With crappy jobs he was able to save enough for retirement, which many of his arsehole bosses who made more money couldn't say. As long as you can bank a portion of your paycheque every month they can't truely stop you.
I've worked in an office for 13 years now so I probably don't need you or anyone else to fill me in on what goes on in the work place....was just curious which "employers" you had personal experience with, since you used the plural. Turns out it's one place. The link is extraneous, as, again, you said "I find employers" so that sounded to me like perhaps you were speaking from vast experience, as opposed to one job and a Seinfeld episode. Silly me.

I don't see political correctness as well as you do. Perhaps your senses are heightened? I don't know. I also don't quickly observe people's self-esteem levels like you do....perhaps you should be a psychologist?

In my experiences, all sorts of people have gotten their incompetent asses fired, and they certainly ran the gamut as it pertained to their grasp of the language. I guess we see what we want to see.
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Old 10-05-2008, 11:26 PM   #104
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So short answer, the article you posted has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

Well if Palin is the Queen of the non-answer, you could be her king.

Yes it does have to do with illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants want education and since they get amnesty we have to deal with them. I already posted before my attitudes on the prevention of illegal immigrants and don't want to repeat them.

The reason Palin dodged some questions was because she didn't want liberals from putting words in her mouth and she wanted to use her time to communicate directly to the people without the filter. She even said so.
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Old 10-05-2008, 11:38 PM   #105
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I've worked in an office for 13 years now so I probably don't need you or anyone else to fill me in on what goes on in the work place....was just curious which "employers" you had personal experience with, since you used the plural. Turns out it's one place. The link is extraneous, as, again, you said "I find employers" so that sounded to me like perhaps you were speaking from vast experience, as opposed to one job and a Seinfeld episode. Silly me.

I don't see political correctness as well as you do. Perhaps your senses are heightened? I don't know. I also don't quickly observe people's self-esteem levels like you do....perhaps you should be a psychologist?

In my experiences, all sorts of people have gotten their incompetent asses fired, and they certainly ran the gamut as it pertained to their grasp of the language. I guess we see what we want to see.
Actually it was 2 offices, and I've talked to other people and their experiences. My job involves lots of dealing with clients face to face and if you can't do that you get fired. When clients complain about not understanding someone face to face or on the phone it will raise red flags and clients can be very cruel when complaining to the partner. Certainly my experiences are limited to accounting and if you find it different elsewhere I can't dispute your claims and have no motivation to do so.
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