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Old 06-06-2009, 11:28 AM   #121
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Speeding is foolish. Incredibly stupid, reckless behaviour.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:51 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Angela Harlem View Post
Speeding is foolish. Incredibly stupid, reckless behaviour.
This is much too simple of a statement, to be frank. Me doing 50 on a highway that is pointlessly 35 is endangering no one. In fact, doing the speed limit would often be more dangerous.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:52 AM   #123
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to be fair though, you aren't a driver.



Some of those figures do get exaggerated though.

That said, I think are rules are probably better from yours. I think here it should be 5ks over, warning or something, because I copped a point for being 4 ks over, but those seem pretty damn lenient.
And to be fair, Danny, you're a very inexperienced driver. You're in the statistically doomed group, mate. You drive a V6, too, don't you?

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If only the world was the hyper-simplified, black and white, small picture, one-sided coin that you see it as, I guess that would be the case.

It reminds me of when the right-wingers in my country say things like, "If you're not doing anything wrong, then why do you care that the government taps your phones?" If you have to ask the question, you probably wouldn't understand the answer.

As far as cameras in Au working just fine, they don't. Sorry!
I believe Axver was referring to the concept of cameras being effective, actually. Everyone is quite aware of how machines can be faulty. Speed cameras are no exception. Also, further to your unecessarily snide remarks about the world being black and white, and Republicans and everything else you managed to slide in there, from an outsider's perspective it really is curious to observe other places getting so worked up over the whole issue. Maybe we have complacency because 'they've just always been there', or maybe we're not as paranoid? That last one is not an insult. I dunno. Folk in the US certainly do get very concerned about things which the average Australian and Kiwi wouldn't bat an eye over. God help you all if someone dare infringe on your rights to freedom in the name of safety. Guns, seatbelts, speeding cameras.. I'm sure there's more.

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RIGHT! the law is the law, right or wrong. we should never question the system.
That's a really accurate response, given that you seemed to have misunderstood what Axver was saying.

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But john, you have to realize that the government is always right, and if they decide that the speed limit on all roads should be 15mph, they have the right to do that and we shouldn't ever complain!
Oh, cydewaze, this isn't sarcasm! It's just annoying. You can do better than this, no?
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:55 AM   #124
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This is much too simple of a statement, to be frank. Me doing 50 on a highway that is pointlessly 35 is endangering no one. In fact, doing the speed limit would often be more dangerous.
I think your counter is too simple. In what way would those speeds be dangerous?

I'll try and look for those results the NRMA have conducted over the years here on braking distances and speed effects on as little as 5km/h. I'm also struggling a little with your mile examples. I'm not at all familiar with just how fast a 15 mile difference in speed would be. I need a converter, also, lol.
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Old 06-06-2009, 11:57 AM   #125
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They 'work fine' at revenue raising for the government.

Incidentally, why do you think the police have better expertise than the private citizen on adjudjing what driving too fast means?
I imagine when your job involves cleaning up the human debris from accidents you get to learn the effects of speed?
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:00 PM   #126
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I think your counter is too simple. In what way would those speeds be dangerous?

I'll try and look for those results the NRMA have conducted over the years here on breaking distances and speed effects on as little as 5km/h. I'm also struggling a little with your mile examples. I'm not at all familiar with just how fast a 15 mile difference in speed would be. I need a converter, also, lol.
In my example, there's a highway with a posted speed limit of 55 km/h for a 1.5 km long section, while the rest of the road is posted at about 72 km/h. On all sections, I (and most other drivers) will do about 80 km/h.

My other complaint about PA's driving laws: all roads but one have a maximum speed limit off 88 km/h, and the one that isn't is still only 104 km/h (the PA Turnpike). The idea that every road can be no faster than 88 km/h is absolutely absurd.

You've never seen a person going too slow, to the point where it endangers people? It happens all the time, even in cases where it has nothing to do with the posted speed limit.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:10 PM   #127
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Not sure what your highways are like physically, but 80km is a reasonable speed, I do agree. Our highways vary between 60-80, depending on the residential build up and shops or schools, etc. If there is any potential hazard, things do change. Your extra 5, 10, 15 km/h do greatly affect your stopping distance, your ability to react in time safely, and so on. We're all aware of how technical these things can get.

And I do agree that particularly slow drivers can pose their own hazard. On freeways here the limit is generally 110km/hr but L platers can only do 80, so they plod along in the slow lane pissing people off, causing them to recklessly merge in and out. Great variances in speeds are a problem, definitely.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:13 PM   #128
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Stopping Distance Tests - NRMA Insurance

The NRMA link I hope Danny reads!
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:13 PM   #129
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speeding does not necessarily equal reckless

and sorry, i dont trust anything an insurance company says
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:27 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Angela Harlem View Post
Not sure what your highways are like physically, but 80km is a reasonable speed, I do agree. Our highways vary between 60-80, depending on the residential build up and shops or schools, etc. If there is any potential hazard, things do change. Your extra 5, 10, 15 km/h do greatly affect your stopping distance, your ability to react in time safely, and so on. We're all aware of how technical these things can get.

And I do agree that particularly slow drivers can pose their own hazard. On freeways here the limit is generally 110km/hr but L platers can only do 80, so they plod along in the slow lane pissing people off, causing them to recklessly merge in and out. Great variances in speeds are a problem, definitely.
And that's the point. A limit around 110 km/h would be much more reasonable for our highways, not 88 km/h.

We're just way too low with our speed limits, which is why I don't want these cameras. I'd be ticketed for being reasonable.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:34 PM   #131
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go back to bed america, your government is in control. here, here is american gladiators, watch this, shut up.
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Old 06-06-2009, 12:40 PM   #132
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110kmph is definitely ideal for highways.

I really haven't bothered reading through this thread, so I apologise if I'm either repeating a bunch of things, or not even talking about what's going on - but let me just dive in - I grew up in a rural Australian community where driving, and often drink/drug-driving, happens to be all the rage. And it has shown. I've known people who've been injured because of this, and I've known people, some close to me, who have died because of this. It isn't an issue of age, as some might assume - and often it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with intoxication. It simply happens. Hell, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's seen such things happen so closely, and I couldn't bring up any statistics just this moment, but in my currently reckless, anecdote-loving state, I'm going to say that cameras are certainly a good idea, even if speed limits suck half the time. And fuck, if I get a ticket, then chances are I'd have deserved it. Only exception I can see here is in the long, long roads in the country, free of twists, turns and cars for miles, where the limit is 110km/ph, don't bust me here but I'll often go 130km/ph for a little while, since it's the extent that I think I can control an automobile.

Despite all this, I've seen the cameras work, and I'm glad they have. Will you trust me here? Probably not. But don't be thinking all Orwell here, speed cameras aren't as bad as you think.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:55 PM   #133
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I believe Axver was referring to the concept of cameras being effective, actually
That's a really accurate response, given that you seemed to have misunderstood what Axver was saying.
Sorry, my mind-reading isn't what it used to be. But even still, there's a big difference between concept and execution. Lots of things look good conceptually that don't cut it in the real world.



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Oh, cydewaze, this isn't sarcasm! It's just annoying. You can do better than this, no?
Nope. With an IQ of 72, that's the best I can do, sorry!
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:03 PM   #134
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And that's the point. A limit around 110 km/h would be much more reasonable for our highways, not 88 km/h.

We're just way too low with our speed limits, which is why I don't want these cameras. I'd be ticketed for being reasonable.
I'll tell you what cooks my goose.

What actually increases the rate of accidents isn't speed. It's the speed differential between vehicles. A road where all the cars are going 50mph OR all the cars are going 70mph is safer than a road where half of the cars are going 50 and the other half are going 70.

Traffic engineers are supposed to set speed limits based on what speed will get the lowest speed differential. If you raise the speed limit or lower it from that point, you increase the speed differential, and cause more accidents. This is because only some of the people will obey the lower limit, and only some of the people will take advantage of the higher limit.

So yes, there have been documented cases where lowering the limit increased the accident rate.

They could stop speeding tomorrow. All they have to do is set a reasonable speed limit on the roads, and have a zero tolerance policy with huge fines and license suspensions. They'll never do it though. There's no money in that sort of shit.
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Old 06-06-2009, 06:24 PM   #135
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They could just make vehicles that don't go over 55.
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