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Old 06-05-2009, 06:41 AM   #106
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That works out to be 120-145ks... now I don't know what the highways are like over there, but that's fucking mental.
bearing in mind their roads are far straighter and wider it's perfectly comfortable. i'd have no trouble driving on it, whereas the thought of doing 100 on some of the motorways in new zealand is fucking terrifying.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:44 AM   #107
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yeah. i'm not a hoon, just i believe unlucky.



unlucky is hitting a child at nearly 60 in a 50 zone and either killing them or giving them an Aquired Brain Injury.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:59 AM   #108
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another big reason motorists tend to follow such traffic rules better in germany than, say, the u.s. is simply because here such things (passing on the right instead of the left, reserving the left lane only for passing, etc.) just aren't really taught or enforced. it's been ten years now since i took my driving test, but at no point was any of that really brought up. here it's kinda like if you have an opening in another lane take it, even if you're getting in the right lane to try to pass someone.

it aggravates me when i'm on the interstate and i'm just trying to do the speed limit but can't. i'll be in the left lane going 75 in a 70 zone trying to pass a line of cars (also frequently checking the rear view mirror to make sure someone isn't on my bumper wanting to pass me) and someone will cut me off and proceed to continuously do 60. hey fucktard, if you're going to go ten under, the left lane isn't for you. not to mention if the people that were in front of you in the right lane were going 55, then maybe you were better off over there since that's about how fast you were going.

i will admit i do my fair share of speeding, but the only thing i expect of other drivers is going the speed limit. if you're going to pull in front of me despite there being no one in back of me, at least have the common decency to actually go as fast or faster than me. i understand needing some time to speed back up, but if after a mile you're not going any faster, then you're an idiot.

but this is all off topic. we don't have speed cameras here, though i don't think they'd be a bad idea. i can't imagine them ever putting any in this part of town though, mostly because it's so hard to speed in the first place. nine times out of ten when i'm on the interstate around here, i'm lucky if i do the speed limit, just due to traffic. the only place in town i could imagine it actually making some money are some residential streets. i can't tell you how many times i've seen tire marks all along someone's front yard along this one stretch, due to people obviously jumping the curb and going up on the lawn. it's 30 along this road, and even at 40 i've never had an issue of "whoa i nearly lost control there!" (though i usually stick to a max of 35 just due to it being a huge speed trap.) it makes me wonder 1. how fast some people must go along there 2. what breed of idiot you must be to think you don't need to slow down for a turn in the road.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:08 AM   #109
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Photo Radar Slows Speeders: Ontario Publishes Results of Four-Month Preliminary Study
I remember this pretty well although I was living in Montreal at the time. The 401 trek to Toronto was regular for me in the early 90s whether it was visiting friends/family on long weekends or one of the summer jobs I had in TO.

In my experience, average speed on many stretches was at least 130km/hr. If you wanted to do 120 or less you needed to be in the far right lane to feel safe - if being sandwiched between 18-wheelers makes you feel safe that is.

I recall photo radar making a HUGE difference on my trips and I would say the effect lasted quite a while after the program was shut down. Naturally average speeds crept back up. When I moved to Toronto in the late 90s the nightly news was full of these crazy awful crashes where it seemed fairly routine for accident victims to be identified by dental records by necessity.

The newer penalties for going 150+ seem to me to have made a significant impact as well but haven't seen stats.
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Old 06-05-2009, 09:58 AM   #110
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Everyone sets his priorities different. For me it would just not be important enough an issue to base my vote on. Well, I could never imagine voting Republican anyways, but as a German my political spectrum is far more left than the Republicans could ever be.
On the other hand, I would fully agree that it's generally not healthy to have the same party leading for decades.
I normally would not ever vote republican either, especially not in a national election, but for local elections, I could see making an exception.

This area is so overwhelmingly liberal that even the republicans are pretty centrist. They know they'd never get elected otherwise. So basically, the only differences you get between the parties are these "small" issues, with the republicans (believe it or not) coming down on the side of civil liberties and the dems pushing a Bush-like platform of restricting those liberties. Quite a role reversal, eh?

Even the centrist republicans have a hard time around here, but we got to the point some time ago where the dems decided that they could basically do anything and everything they wanted because "people around here don't vote for republicans" and that's led to abuses and even corruption.

When elected officials totally ignore the will of the people for their own personal best interest, a change needs to be made. I understand this seems like a small issue, but I have a serious problem with government surveillance of the people, and that doesn't change just because the ones doing it have a "D" after their name.

Things escalate. Today we have a few cameras. In a few years we'll have more of them, maybe on every road. Maybe we'll have them inside our cars (maybe you were looking at the road, or maybe you were applying makeup when you had that accident. Let's check your "black box" and see). If you don't put your foot down early, things get out of hand in short order.

I don't want to live in a world where my every movement is tracked by some sort of surveillance equipment, and you shouldn't either. You can almost sell anything to anyone if you tell them it's for their own good. Well, my own good is just fine the way it is, thank you.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:22 PM   #111
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I do a lot of driving in non-rush hour hours, so I don't want to have to do the idiotically low speed limit on a road where I don't have to. I mean, fuck, I want to spend as little time in transit as humanly possible while maintaining safety, and that's way faster than anything they post. The fact that no road can be higher than 55 MPH aside from the Turnpike is the stupidest traffic law. And the fact that the Turnpike is only 65 is also absurd. Unless there's construction, I'm doing 80 on the Turnpike, guaranteed.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:27 PM   #112
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I remember this pretty well although I was living in Montreal at the time. The 401 trek to Toronto was regular for me in the early 90s whether it was visiting friends/family on long weekends or one of the summer jobs I had in TO.

In my experience, average speed on many stretches was at least 130km/hr. If you wanted to do 120 or less you needed to be in the far right lane to feel safe - if being sandwiched between 18-wheelers makes you feel safe that is.

I recall photo radar making a HUGE difference on my trips and I would say the effect lasted quite a while after the program was shut down. Naturally average speeds crept back up. When I moved to Toronto in the late 90s the nightly news was full of these crazy awful crashes where it seemed fairly routine for accident victims to be identified by dental records by necessity.

The newer penalties for going 150+ seem to me to have made a significant impact as well but haven't seen stats.
That's pretty much my memory of it, too.

These days, going to Toronto, I drive to Burlington and take the GO. MUCH easier, and cost effective too when you add in gas and parking.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:18 PM   #113
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I do a lot of driving in non-rush hour hours, so I don't want to have to do the idiotically low speed limit on a road where I don't have to. I mean, fuck, I want to spend as little time in transit as humanly possible while maintaining safety, and that's way faster than anything they post. The fact that no road can be higher than 55 MPH aside from the Turnpike is the stupidest traffic law. And the fact that the Turnpike is only 65 is also absurd. Unless there's construction, I'm doing 80 on the Turnpike, guaranteed.
Yanno, I don't even mind driving slow (maybe because I'm old). But I do mind the bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic that the cameras create. Am I really expected to believe that a long string of cars filled with impatient, irate drivers and tailgating one another is safer than smooth-flowing traffic? I mean come on. That's got to be common sense.

Even thought I technically live in the DC suburbs, I actually live in a very rural area (it's an agricultural reserve), and there's not really that much traffic as compared with the rest of the area. Some of the roads near my home have not had a recorded accident in the past 20 years. In fact some of them have never had a recorded accident for as long as they've been keeping records. Yet the cameras are here. Why?

Could it be maybe that at the end of the road that goes through town there's a ferry to VA (where speed cameras are illegal) and they think they can catch a bunch of unsuspecting VA drivers?

A while back, a couple got caught doing 100mph in a 30mph zone. Even though they were obviously not going 100mph (the car would have had to do something like 0-100 in 50 yards uphill, and it was a Corolla) they paid the fine, because no matter how fast you're going, the fine is $40, zero points, and your insurance company is not notified.

They showed the ticket to a news outlet who publicized it, and the county reluctantly and sheepishly refunded their $40. If the camera can be off by 70mph, it can certainly be off by 5, 10, 15, or any amount of mph. How many people who aren't speeding just pay the fine because it's not worth going to court for $40.

Also, this area is filled with filthy rich people. How much of a deterrent is a $40 fine for someone who lives in a $5 mil home and drives an Aston? With no points and no insurance issues, rich people can drive as fast as they want. Just log on and pay your tickets online when you get home. Some deterrent.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:16 PM   #114
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I normally would not ever vote republican either, especially not in a national election, but for local elections, I could see making an exception.

This area is so overwhelmingly liberal that even the republicans are pretty centrist. They know they'd never get elected otherwise. So basically, the only differences you get between the parties are these "small" issues, with the republicans (believe it or not) coming down on the side of civil liberties and the dems pushing a Bush-like platform of restricting those liberties. Quite a role reversal, eh?

Even the centrist republicans have a hard time around here, but we got to the point some time ago where the dems decided that they could basically do anything and everything they wanted because "people around here don't vote for republicans" and that's led to abuses and even corruption.

When elected officials totally ignore the will of the people for their own personal best interest, a change needs to be made. I understand this seems like a small issue, but I have a serious problem with government surveillance of the people, and that doesn't change just because the ones doing it have a "D" after their name.

Things escalate. Today we have a few cameras. In a few years we'll have more of them, maybe on every road. Maybe we'll have them inside our cars (maybe you were looking at the road, or maybe you were applying makeup when you had that accident. Let's check your "black box" and see). If you don't put your foot down early, things get out of hand in short order.

I don't want to live in a world where my every movement is tracked by some sort of surveillance equipment, and you shouldn't either. You can almost sell anything to anyone if you tell them it's for their own good. Well, my own good is just fine the way it is, thank you.
I entirely agree with you. On a local level you sometimes find yourself voting for a party you would never vote for on any other level. It's also because the politicians on that level seem closer to reality. And some change every now and then can be very effective in keeping corruption and too big an influence of lobbyists low.

And with recent attempts at diminishing our freedoms and privacy I've become much more suspicious of measures that are for our safety in general. But speed cameras have never been of concern to me in such a way. But reason might also be that we have only very few immobile ones, they are usually found in places where you can agree with and there is not much lobbying behind.
About two years ago they wanted to introduce a new camera which would scan the license plates of every car that passed. Our highest court put an end to that shit. Then they wanted to introduce a law that would allow to measure the average speed like referred to earlier. It was blocked as well.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:28 PM   #115
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I do a lot of driving in non-rush hour hours, so I don't want to have to do the idiotically low speed limit on a road where I don't have to. I mean, fuck, I want to spend as little time in transit as humanly possible while maintaining safety, and that's way faster than anything they post. The fact that no road can be higher than 55 MPH aside from the Turnpike is the stupidest traffic law. And the fact that the Turnpike is only 65 is also absurd. Unless there's construction, I'm doing 80 on the Turnpike, guaranteed.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:36 PM   #116
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What part of PA are you from, out of curiosity?
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:00 PM   #117
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Pittsburgh area





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Old 06-05-2009, 07:27 PM   #118
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Pittsburgh area





I was just there yesterday.

I'm so proud of myself -- I didn't get lost or nuttin'.


(I have a hideous sense of direction )
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:41 AM   #119
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About two years ago they wanted to introduce a new camera which would scan the license plates of every car that passed. Our highest court put an end to that shit. Then they wanted to introduce a law that would allow to measure the average speed like referred to earlier. It was blocked as well.
So basically you could drive that section once to see how long it takes to do at the speed limit, then the next time you could drive 100mph then just pull over before the exit and wait a few minutes.
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:57 AM   #120
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Yeah, you could do that. Don't know what you would get from that, but anyways.
And believe me, it's not much fun to be standing on the emergency lane of an autobahn.

Different, of course, on other roads. But normally it's crazy to do more than 120kph (75mph) on those, and 100kph (62.5kph) is legal. Doesn't mean that nobody does it, however.
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