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Old 06-03-2009, 04:55 PM   #46
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Wow, you're especially thick today...
Come on, BVS.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:11 PM   #47
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But, police can only catch and ticket a very limited amount of speeders. If you're driving down a particular road (e.g. the 401) and know that you're going to be caught every time, and then the fines and demerit points start to add up, your insurance rates increase, aren't you eventually going to start to slow down?

It was ended here on the 401 purely due to political reasons.
I suppose if its in the same spot all the time it would slow people down in that stretch of highway, but what about in the areas where people know there arent cameras? the ontario photo radar program was all in mobile vans and if i remember right and there were only a limited number of them. So I dont know if they would be any more of a deterrent than knowing that police are also patrolling the same highways. Also, and this is somewhat irrelevant, but didnt radiostations at the time start announcing photo radar van sitings? As I recall, the vans were quite conspicuous
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:35 PM   #48
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I was only 14-15 at that time and wasn't driving yet, so I only remember really hearing about it.

I drove down "Carnage Alley" dozens upon dozens of times because I went to law school in London for 3 years, so I'm very familiar with that stretch of 401. The thing is, it's such free flowing traffic most of the time that it's hard not to speed.
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said you pretty much can't drive under 120 on the 401 - doing so is risking an accident. 120 is fine with good road conditions, safe distances between vehicles and without idiots cutting in and out of lanes for no apparent reason, but unfortunately all of those conditions are rarely met. And, I'm sure you know that even driving at 120 - 130, there are tons of cars whizzing past at much greater speeds.

I had to drive to London at 7 am the other day with a back seat full of meowing cats, having had very little sleep the night before. I didn't even attempt the 401 with those potential distractions, I took hwy 2. Took 20 minutes longer, but I got there in one piece.

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I suppose if its in the same spot all the time it would slow people down in that stretch of highway, but what about in the areas where people know there arent cameras? the ontario photo radar program was all in mobile vans and if i remember right and there were only a limited number of them. So I dont know if they would be any more of a deterrent than knowing that police are also patrolling the same highways. Also, and this is somewhat irrelevant, but didnt radiostations at the time start announcing photo radar van sitings? As I recall, the vans were quite conspicuous
I honestly don't remember many of the details. I'm in Brantford, and the extent of my 401 to Toronto driving during that time was going to TO for Jays' games or concerts. I do remember it being this huge controversy in the media, though. If the vans were moved to random spots each day, or even throughout the day, I'm sure that people would eventually get used to the idea that they have to slow down on that road, period. If they do ever bring it back, radio stations should be fined for reporting exact locations.
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:40 PM   #49
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Between 120 and 150 (~75 to 90mph) is a nice travelling speed. But you need to be used to it. I think in Canada it's not forbidden to overtake on the inside, right?
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:54 PM   #50
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Come on, BVS.
What now?

Was he not being stubborn?
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Old 06-03-2009, 05:57 PM   #51
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If the vans were moved to random spots each day, or even throughout the day, I'm sure that people would eventually get used to the idea that they have to slow down on that road, period.
Thats kinda the thing though. Why cant it be a police speed trap that moves to random spots? I think the idea that there are going to be radars of any kind, camera or police, on the highways would at least make some people think twice about speeding. But the benefit of a police officer is that he will pull over the jackass thats traveling at 180 kph and prevent him from hurting anybody.

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I had to drive to London at 7 am the other day with a back seat full of meowing cats...
this made me laugh
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Old 06-03-2009, 06:08 PM   #52
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Thats kinda the thing though. Why cant it be a police speed trap that moves to random spots? I think the idea that there are going to be radars of any kind, camera or police, on the highways would at least make some people think twice about speeding. But the benefit of a police officer is that he will pull over the jackass thats traveling at 180 kph and prevent him from hurting anybody.



this made me laugh
Oh, it can be that, and I agree, for immediate safety, having police or the MTO out there is the much safer option. But realistically, given the immense volumes of traffic on those roads daily, the odds that they're going to get any individual speeder, even the ones going over the 150 kph mark, is very slim. I just think that as an additional deterrent, photo radar is a decent option for bringing speeds down to a much safer level.

I'd really like to find some stats re: tickets issued or accidents during the period it was in effect.

Yes, it was pretty funny. Me bleary eyed, mainlining coffee, saying "we're almost there, kitties!" lol
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Old 06-03-2009, 07:09 PM   #53
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Where I was growing up, the road in front of our house certainly could have done with a couple of speed cameras.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:53 PM   #54
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Around here we have speed cameras popping up everywhere, and they're creating quite a few unforeseen side-effects.

First off, when traffic is light, people slow down for the 5' section the camera watches, then floor it once past it. Also, in some places (our town included) people have started cutting through neighborhoods to bypass the cameras. When they do this, they usually roll stop signs and they rarely observe the 25mph limits. Now they've started speed bumping the neighborhoods (yet another expense) but of course those slow down the emergency vehicles.

In heavy traffic, the traffic cams snarl the roads, because when people hit the brakes for the cam (and they do whether they're speeding or not), it creates an accordion down through the line of traffic. This makes a previously smooth-running road turn into a stop-and-go mess, which increases pollution and fuel consumption. It also causes a fair amount of rear-end collisions, but of course those don't go into the accident reports because they're not considered "speed-related". Just about every favorable report on these things has had the numbers cooked.

Finally, there's the thing about how the cameras are paid for. Right now, our county has a contract to pay the camera maker $142,000 per month for just one set of cameras. And our county is blanketed in the things. This begs the question, what happens if everyone slows down and no more tickets are given? Who pays the bill?

There are just so many things wrong with these things that I'm amazed they were ever able to sleaze them through.

Sometimes working for the Department of Transportation is cool, and sometimes I think there are some things I'd be better off not knowing.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:06 PM   #55
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People who think speed cameras are a good idea probably have never driven in the Northeastern US on a regular basis.

I'm not saying it's right, but there's no possible way to implement this in a successful way around here. I speed every day. Every single day. I don't know a person who doesn't.
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:08 PM   #56
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In heavy traffic, the traffic cams snarl the roads, because when people hit the brakes for the cam (and they do whether they're speeding or not), it creates an accordion down through the line of traffic. This makes a previously smooth-running road turn into a stop-and-go mess, which increases pollution and fuel consumption. It also causes a fair amount of rear-end collisions, but of course those don't go into the accident reports because they're not considered "speed-related". Just about every favorable report on these things has had the numbers cooked.
Bingo. Those cameras are posted on the lights, and when I'm coming up to a yellow, I have no idea what to do. Do I keep going and risk getting tagged for doing the safer thing, or do I avoid the camera by slamming on the breaks and risking getting rear-ended?
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:21 PM   #57
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Bingo. Those cameras are posted on the lights, and when I'm coming up to a yellow, I have no idea what to do. Do I keep going and risk getting tagged for doing the safer thing, or do I avoid the camera by slamming on the breaks and risking getting rear-ended?
Actually I was referring to the speed cameras, not the red light cameras.

The red light cameras don't bother me as much, although they probably should, since they're easier to commit fraud with.

Then again, you could also use speed cameras to get back at your enemies. With automated enforcement, the possibilities are almost limitless.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:46 AM   #58
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yeah, but the problem is there is another one waiting a mile down the road
That is so true! Whenever I see a cop on the freeway I know there's at least one more within the next couple of miles.

(Ohio resident here )
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:49 AM   #59
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Come to Australia they just sit on the sides of the road eating donuts with a speed camera in tow.

I'm up for about $500 in fines, once was 54ks in a 50 zone, then 70 in a 5 zone four minutes later, and now 105 in a 100 zone, which is just bloody annoying. Everyone speeds on the freeway
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:01 AM   #60
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54ks in a 50 zone
They nail you for that little over? I'd be toast!

Usually here you're ok if you are within 5-10 mph over on highways and within 5 mph over everywhere else (except maybe in school zones). I suppose with the cameras though maybe that cushion would disappear.
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