Some Want God/Religion Out Of Inauguration - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-04-2009, 12:40 PM   #31
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,805
Local Time: 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlingamy View Post
That i can totally lie because god is a figment of an imagination and who gives a shit because he ain't going to do anything since he's not real?
There's some real tact on display in this post.
__________________

__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 09:04 PM   #32
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
There's some real tact on display in this post.
How is that statement tactless? Here's more of it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlingamy View Post
I just find that for all the people who don't believe in the bible, from atheists to Muslims/Hindu/Buddhism what does that mean? That i can totally lie because god is a figment of an imagination and who gives a shit because he ain't going to do anything since he's not real? What do they do for people who DON'T believe in god?
I took her statement to mean that this is something that herself or a hypothetical non-Christian or atheist might think in that (hypothetical) circumstance. Again, what's wrong with that, how is it tactless? This is how they/we think, and there's nothing wrong with stating that.

Do Christians have to stop and think of putting statements about their belief into "tactful terms" so as not to offend non-believers? Do they qualify their belief by saying "maybe" or "might" to soften their stance out of concern for non-believers? Not that I've ever seen.

It works both ways.
__________________

__________________
VintagePunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 09:26 PM   #33
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:11 PM
If we can just mutually agree that there either is or may be a God, and respect that there is lots of different ways to worship God then we can coexist.

Atheists upset most people by holding bigoted and narrow-minded views that say the major religions are fundamentally wrong.

They simply don't respect the beliefs of other people. A Christian and a Muslim may disagree on some issues, but they believe in the same God. The divisive atheist will stand up and say that they are all wrong, usually without becoming an expert in the religious texts which make the best case for each religion.

Atheists should be allowed to not believe, thats religious freedom, but they shouldn't be going around telling others that there is no God and that their sacred beliefs are backwards; thats offensive and tactless, people should be allowed to believe what they want without having others tear it down. Just because atheists have no principles of their own doesn't mean they should be allowed to destroy those of other people.

Let's see more RESPECT and more COEXIST, if we just agree that God might be right then there won't be as much evil in the world.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 09:31 PM   #34
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
If we can just mutually agree that there either is or may be a God, and respect that there is lots of different ways to worship God then we can coexist.

Atheists upset most people by holding bigoted and narrow-minded views that say the major religions are fundamentally wrong.

They simply don't respect the beliefs of other people. A Christian and a Muslim may disagree on some issues, but they believe in the same God. The divisive atheist will stand up and say that they are all wrong, usually without becoming an expert in the religious texts which make the best case for each religion.

Atheists should be allowed to not believe, thats religious freedom, but they shouldn't be going around telling others that there is no God and that their sacred beliefs are backwards; thats offensive and tactless, people should be allowed to believe what they want without having others tear it down. Just because atheists have no principles of their own doesn't mean they should be allowed to destroy those of other people.

Let's see more RESPECT and more COEXIST, if we just agree that God might be right then there won't be as much evil in the world.
Speaking of sweeping generalizations...
__________________
VintagePunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 09:46 PM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
If we can just mutually agree that there either is or may be a God, and respect that there is lots of different ways to worship God then we can coexist.

Atheists upset most people by holding bigoted and narrow-minded views that say the major religions are fundamentally wrong.

They simply don't respect the beliefs of other people. A Christian and a Muslim may disagree on some issues, but they believe in the same God. The divisive atheist will stand up and say that they are all wrong, usually without becoming an expert in the religious texts which make the best case for each religion.

Atheists should be allowed to not believe, thats religious freedom, but they shouldn't be going around telling others that there is no God and that their sacred beliefs are backwards; thats offensive and tactless, people should be allowed to believe what they want without having others tear it down. Just because atheists have no principles of their own doesn't mean they should be allowed to destroy those of other people.

Let's see more RESPECT and more COEXIST, if we just agree that God might be right then there won't be as much evil in the world.
I hope you mean what you say, because I have known quite a few atheists who were rude and tactless towards people who believe in a God. I have nothing against people not believing in a God, people are going to believe whatever they want to believe. What I have a problem are atheists being as bad as radical, fanatical religious people. I also don't like it when atheists make rude comments about religions when they expect people to respect their beliefs.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 09:53 PM   #36
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 04:11 AM
I'm assuming it sounded tactless in that, no, you cannot just lie in open court because of a Bible (which I don't think is even used anymore?). As a God-believing Christian, I also think the inclusion of "God" in these oaths is dumb. But sometimes people just come off with a lot of attitude, as if someone like *me* personally is responsible for such an outdated tradition. For the record, I don't really care about it either way. I'm not going to go against the oath because of the word "god", nor would I blink an eye if it was re-worded or included references to other religions.
__________________
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 10:22 PM   #37
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
I'm assuming it sounded tactless in that, no, you cannot just lie in open court because of a Bible (which I don't think is even used anymore?).
Oh, okay. I totally didn't read it that way, but I see what you mean. And besides, I don't really think it's the oath that prevents lying in court for most, even among Christians, but the potential consequences of perjury.

Quote:
As a God-believing Christian, I also think the inclusion of "God" in these oaths is dumb. ... For the record, I don't really care about it either way. I'm not going to go against the oath because of the word "god", nor would I blink an eye if it was re-worded or included references to other religions.
Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way. I'm not militant in my beliefs at all, and it's all a relatively small concern for me in my day to day life.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 10:32 PM   #38
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I hope you mean what you say, because I have known quite a few atheists who were rude and tactless towards people who believe in a God. I have nothing against people not believing in a God, people are going to believe whatever they want to believe. What I have a problem are atheists being as bad as radical, fanatical religious people. I also don't like it when atheists make rude comments about religions when they expect people to respect their beliefs.
What is a fundamentalist atheist?

A fundamentalist Christian is probably a literalist, they will accept the inherent truth of the Bible and apply it to their world view. Their theology often clouds their acceptance of established scientific facts and their social agenda follows that of bronze-age semitic tribes.

I will try to make a generic fundamentalist atheist for comparison, its a little hard because we have the disadvantage of not actually having any canon, or necessarily agreeing on anything other than the likely inexistence of God.

A fundamentalist atheist asserts that the likelihood of Gods existence is minimal, on the basis of the observable evidence we can have naturalistic explanations that don't add an impossible to prove God, this is constantly up for revision

Atheists are not the ones asserting that they know a God exists, and furthermore that they know what that God wants me to do, and that the other religions are misguided because they have the real truth. Freethinkers aren't mutilating their children's bodies, frightening them into belief, or telling them that they will go to heaven for martyrdom. Freethinkers aren't blowing up rival sects mosques, or abortion clinics, or churches for that matter.

Moderate Christians always evoke the idea of a fundamentalist atheist, a beast which is both morally and practically no different than the most bigoted and hateful deep southern Baptist. The type of atheist who wants to shut down all churches, kill all priests, ban the bible entirely etc.

What on earth do you mean by fundamentalist atheist? What is a moderate atheist, someone who says God only partly exists? And can you really sit back with a straight face and tell us that religious societies aren't a little bit more prone to producing violent bigotry than those more open and secular ones?

If you take the likes of Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens as the public faces of modern atheism they are mostly polite, they get characterised as hateful bigots while men like Rick Warren, Billy Graham, Yusuf al Qaradawi, and Joseph Ratzinger get public praise as men of peace. It is morally retarded and demands more good people who are atheists to stand up, affirm their unbelief, and undo the propaganda that people have about atheists.

The simply act of saying that there probably is no God and the universe is natural is atheistic fundamentalism, what I posted was deliberately ironic and is diametrically opposed to my feeling that atheists have just as much right to discuss their beliefs and to protest unwarranted religious interference in the affairs of government.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 10:33 PM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
Speaking of sweeping generalizations...
Some people can read irony.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 10:38 PM   #40
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Some people can read irony.
Yeah, I knew what it was. Either that, or you'd had a personality transplant in the past few days.


To clarify, I misread Amy's original post, in that I thought by lying she meant taking the oath anyway while not believing in it and thinking it's stupid, as opposed to taking the oath while not believing, and that being a potential out for not having to tell the truth in court.

Either way, I still don't see how the statement is offensive.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 10:43 PM   #41
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:11 PM
What can I say, I found Krishna
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 10:48 PM   #42
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Hey, for all I know, maybe it was divine intervention. An angel visited you?
__________________
VintagePunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 11:33 PM   #43
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 10:11 AM
Your presciently hyperdeveloped left brain is finally succumbing to its true calling?
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 11:36 PM   #44
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 07:11 PM
I'll have to go to the mirror and check FAST.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2009, 10:31 AM   #45
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,984
Local Time: 04:11 AM
Newdow is the same guy who filed the suit on behalf of his daughter, regarding the Pledge Of Allegiance in schools. He constantly files lawsuits, it seems to be a hobby
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com