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Old 08-17-2009, 07:20 PM   #1
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Socialism = Fascism?

Okay, INDY. . .

Bring it.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:27 PM   #2
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kissing cousins..
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:44 PM   #3
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:44 PM   #4
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kissing cousins..

Guess that settles it. . .
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:47 PM   #5
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Guess that settles it. . .
You can't really expect to have a serious debate with the village idiot, right?
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:08 PM   #6
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Socialism certainly does not equal fascism, although, as I pointed out in another thread, some modern European far right political parties have quite left leaning, or at least, anti-globalist economic and social policy platforms.

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Britain’s survival depends on a technology-intensive manufacturing base, protected from globalisation and rampant internationalist exploitation – the core of the British National Party’s plan for rebuilding this nation’s economy after decades of Tory and Labour neglect.
Quote:
Globalisation has caused the export of jobs and industries to the Far East, and has brought ruin and unemployment to British industries and the communities who depend on them.
ECONOMY : The British National Party

Quote:
“Marketisation,” and particularly the Conservative-created Private Finance Initiative (PFI) schemes imposed by Gordon Brown, has been a disaster which is saddling Trusts and the taxpayer with enormous debts. We totally reject this attempt to turn the nation’s health service into a private profit centre for giant corporations.
HEALTH : The British National Party

That said, the statement that socialism equals fascism is drivel and not worthy of a kindergarten debate.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:10 PM   #7
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You can't really expect to have a serious debate with the village idiot, right?

not nice.
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:38 PM   #8
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Once again:
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:53 PM   #9
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:13 PM   #10
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If we can't expect them to know the definitions and historical context of these terms, how do we expect them to understand healthcare, economics, or justice?
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:18 PM   #11
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No it's a code word.

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Old 08-17-2009, 11:38 PM   #12
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That's actually what my husband's been saying all along. "Socialist" means "black." He said it during the election. The word has been used to allow white Americans to express their fear of a black man as president. I almost posted it in the insurance thread. Look who is using it and why.

It's not that far-fetched an idea at all. Older Americans remember Socialists as the enemy, a very, very scary enemy. Calling a black man a "socialist" allows them to express their fear in an acceptable way.

And now of course, calling him a Nazi will really make them afraid. But that could backfire. Could. Never underestimate either the fear of some less-educated Americans or the willingness of the right to exploit that fear and lack of education.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:46 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Okay, INDY. . .

Bring it.
Who did you wish to begin with? The Italian Fascists, the German Nazis, the Russian Communists or Wilson Progressivism? Or perhaps the myth that fascism and communism are opposites?
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:48 PM   #14
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the German Nazis, Wilson Progressivism?
I love gymnastics meets. Link these two please.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:54 PM   #15
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Who did you wish to begin with? The Italian Fascists, the German Nazis, the Russian Communists or Wilson Progressivism? Or perhaps the myth that fascism and communism are opposites?
Association fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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An association fallacy is an inductive formal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.
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Some syllogistic examples of guilt by association are:
  • Hitler was a vegetarian. Hitler was pure evil. Therefore, vegetarians have evil ideals.
  • All dogs have four legs; my cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is a dog. (This argument is made by the wordplay-prone Sir Humphrey Appleby in the BBC sitcom Yes, Prime Minister).
  • Barack Obama does not wear a United States flag lapel pin. A lapel pin represents patriotism. Therefore, Barack Obama is not patriotic.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:57 PM   #16
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Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum, or reductio (or argumentum) ad Nazium (dog Latin for "reduction (or argument) to Adolf Hitler (or the Nazis)) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument, and is a formal fallacy in logic. The name is a pun on reductio ad absurdum. The phrase reductio ad Hitlerum was coined by an academic ethicist, Leo Strauss, in 1953. Engaging in this fallacy is sometimes known as playing the Nazi card.

It is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. Hence this fallacy fails to examine the claim on its merit.

The fallacy most often assumes the form of "Hitler (or the Nazis) supported X, therefore X must be evil/undesirable/bad." For example: "Hitler was a vegetarian, so vegetarianism is wrong." The tactic is often used to derail arguments, as such a comparison tends to distract and to result in angry and less reasoned responses.
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:01 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
That's actually what my husband's been saying all along. "Socialist" means "black." He said it during the election. The word has been used to allow white Americans to express their fear of a black man as president. I almost posted it in the insurance thread. Look who is using it and why.

It's not that far-fetched an idea at all. Older Americans remember Socialists as the enemy, a very, very scary enemy. Calling a black man a "socialist" allows them to express their fear in an acceptable way.
It's only not far-fetched in the everything-is-about-race Grievance Factory of the Left. I seem to remember the same thing happening 15 years ago to those crackers from Arkansas that tried a government takeover of heath care.

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And now of course, calling him a Nazi will really make them afraid. But that could backfire. Could. Never underestimate either the fear of some less-educated Americans or the willingness of the right to exploit that fear and lack of education.
Nancy Pelosi saw Swastikas at townhall meetings well before anyone accused Obama of being a Brownshirt.
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:08 AM   #18
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?????????????????????????????????
I wished to start with one because, make no mistake, they are all very different. But they do have several underlying philosophies in common.
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Old 08-18-2009, 12:28 AM   #19
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I love gymnastics meets. Link these two please.
For starters;
Eugenics
Racism (Jews for one, blacks for the other)
Thought children should be raised by the state rather than parents (I'm sure you've heard of John Dewey.)
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:10 AM   #20
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But they do have several underlying philosophies in common.
So did Hitler's anti-Semitism and Martin Luther's (ever read Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies?). You can't draw absolute distinctions between the cumulative expressions of the former ideology and the cultural influence of 400 years of the latter. That's almost always true with totalizing ideological systems; they have precedents both philosophically and culturally, and in breaking them down for analysis, you're inevitably going to find certain components reminiscent of, and in some cases outright lifted from, those precedents.



Anyhow, 60 million people didn't die in the most destructive military conflict in human history in order for a bunch of ...there's no word contemptuous enough here... to score cheap propaganda points by exploiting the lingering emotional resonance of that conflict two-thirds of a century later. And that is what gives this 'equation' whatever rhetorical pull it has.
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