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Old 08-18-2009, 12:57 AM   #16
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Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Reductio ad Hitlerum, also argumentum ad Hitlerum, or reductio (or argumentum) ad Nazium (dog Latin for "reduction (or argument) to Adolf Hitler (or the Nazis)) is an ad hominem or ad misericordiam argument, and is a formal fallacy in logic. The name is a pun on reductio ad absurdum. The phrase reductio ad Hitlerum was coined by an academic ethicist, Leo Strauss, in 1953. Engaging in this fallacy is sometimes known as playing the Nazi card.

It is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on something or someone's origin rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context. Hence this fallacy fails to examine the claim on its merit.

The fallacy most often assumes the form of "Hitler (or the Nazis) supported X, therefore X must be evil/undesirable/bad." For example: "Hitler was a vegetarian, so vegetarianism is wrong." The tactic is often used to derail arguments, as such a comparison tends to distract and to result in angry and less reasoned responses.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:01 AM   #17
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That's actually what my husband's been saying all along. "Socialist" means "black." He said it during the election. The word has been used to allow white Americans to express their fear of a black man as president. I almost posted it in the insurance thread. Look who is using it and why.

It's not that far-fetched an idea at all. Older Americans remember Socialists as the enemy, a very, very scary enemy. Calling a black man a "socialist" allows them to express their fear in an acceptable way.
It's only not far-fetched in the everything-is-about-race Grievance Factory of the Left. I seem to remember the same thing happening 15 years ago to those crackers from Arkansas that tried a government takeover of heath care.

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And now of course, calling him a Nazi will really make them afraid. But that could backfire. Could. Never underestimate either the fear of some less-educated Americans or the willingness of the right to exploit that fear and lack of education.
Nancy Pelosi saw Swastikas at townhall meetings well before anyone accused Obama of being a Brownshirt.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:08 AM   #18
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I wished to start with one because, make no mistake, they are all very different. But they do have several underlying philosophies in common.
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:28 AM   #19
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I love gymnastics meets. Link these two please.
For starters;
Eugenics
Racism (Jews for one, blacks for the other)
Thought children should be raised by the state rather than parents (I'm sure you've heard of John Dewey.)
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:10 AM   #20
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But they do have several underlying philosophies in common.
So did Hitler's anti-Semitism and Martin Luther's (ever read Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies?). You can't draw absolute distinctions between the cumulative expressions of the former ideology and the cultural influence of 400 years of the latter. That's almost always true with totalizing ideological systems; they have precedents both philosophically and culturally, and in breaking them down for analysis, you're inevitably going to find certain components reminiscent of, and in some cases outright lifted from, those precedents.



Anyhow, 60 million people didn't die in the most destructive military conflict in human history in order for a bunch of ...there's no word contemptuous enough here... to score cheap propaganda points by exploiting the lingering emotional resonance of that conflict two-thirds of a century later. And that is what gives this 'equation' whatever rhetorical pull it has.
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:48 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
That's actually what my husband's been saying all along. "Socialist" means "black." He said it during the election. The word has been used to allow white Americans to express their fear of a black man as president. I almost posted it in the insurance thread. Look who is using it and why.

It's not that far-fetched an idea at all. Older Americans remember Socialists as the enemy, a very, very scary enemy. Calling a black man a "socialist" allows them to express their fear in an acceptable way.

And now of course, calling him a Nazi will really make them afraid. But that could backfire. Could. Never underestimate either the fear of some less-educated Americans or the willingness of the right to exploit that fear and lack of education.



now i get it ! i was seriously stuggling to understand why americans wouldn't want universal health care , and this sums it up .

its a shame becasue the country is going to miss out on a fantastic opportunity to change . i guess its not free and equal for all.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:04 AM   #22
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i used to think i was smart. guess not
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:44 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Nancy Pelosi saw Swastikas at townhall meetings
Are you still believing Rush's spin on this comment? How can we expect you to critically think your way through these connections without your own agenda guiding your thought, if you can't even critically think about this comment?
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:02 AM   #24
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Properly understood, whether you agree with either or not, socialism and fascism have absolutely nothing in common. Fascism uses (or used) the tools of the modern state and mass industrial society to further fundamentally anti-modern objectives. Quite a trick. Socialism, in whatever form I can call to mind, bases itself on a doctrine of 'progress'. Again, whether you like or dislike what either is about.

Fascism is not just a word for nasty people you don't like. It is a Holy Roman Empire of an ideology, stranded mysteriously in the age of bombs and mass media. It probably hasn't gone away, it's just that Hitler is the example that always springs to mind. I could think of others. Franco's Spain, Mussollini's Italy, Peron's Argentina.
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:05 AM   #25
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Also, social democracy does not "=" socialism. The idea that the United States of America is governed by anything resembling socialism is insanity.

The insanity. It burns.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:23 AM   #26
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Every time the right starts screaming about socialism, I laugh at their stupidity. Yes, that's right we should call it stupidity, because that is precisely what it is.

How many people here actually ever lived in a true socialist state? I did. And if you think that what Obama or Pelosi are peddling is socialism, then you are stupid. And no, I won't apologize for it, it's time we get over things like this and called a spade a spade.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:29 AM   #27
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Poor tea partiers, they never get respect for their intellect.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:53 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martha View Post
That's actually what my husband's been saying all along. "Socialist" means "black." He said it during the election. The word has been used to allow white Americans to express their fear of a black man as president. I almost posted it in the insurance thread. Look who is using it and why.

It's not that far-fetched an idea at all. Older Americans remember Socialists as the enemy, a very, very scary enemy. Calling a black man a "socialist" allows them to express their fear in an acceptable way.

And now of course, calling him a Nazi will really make them afraid. But that could backfire. Could. Never underestimate either the fear of some less-educated Americans or the willingness of the right to exploit that fear and lack of education.
Martha, let me ask you something. What percentage of us evil white conservatives do you believe have a problem with a black person with a funny name being president? 1%? 2%? Because that's about what I think it is. What about me? You don't know me that well, but what about me? Do you think I'm opposed to him being president because of his policies, or because of the color of his skin? Tell me. Because I'm fine with a president Colin Powell, or a president Condoleeza Rice, or a president JC Watts. So if you think I have a problem with his skin color, I think you owe me the decency of telling me so.

I find the use of race (almost all of it on the Democratic side) quite upsetting and very telling, though not surprising. I knew that once Obama and his administration and his policies- not to mention the Democratic Party as a whole- start to plummet in the polls, then they would throw the ol' "Well it's because he's black!" tantrum. It's actually pretty funny.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:59 AM   #29
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Because I'm fine with a president Colin Powell, or a president Condoleeza Rice, or a president JC Watts. So if you think I have a problem with his skin color, I think you owe me the decency of telling me so.


i totally went to a BBQ in PG County on Saturday, and Memphis and i were the only white people, and you know what? i was TOTALLY not freaking out at all!
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:05 AM   #30
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For starters;
Eugenics
Racism (Jews for one, blacks for the other)
Thought children should be raised by the state rather than parents (I'm sure you've heard of John Dewey.)

A list is not an argument, it's just a list. You haven't made any point at all, none. No one believes you've made a point. You've just done your usual job of avoiding the issue, avoiding the real point, and not answering questions.

So, now, make the link. You brought it up. Put up or shut up.
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