so, the terrorists win...

[bigjohn2441]

i fly armed, so i bypass all that TSA bullshit

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I'm so lonely I buy airplane tickets just for the pat-down.

 

[yolland]

It's always amused me when people ranting about shoe checks or patdowns fume, "We're gonna wind up just like the Israeli airports!" when the truth is we've never followed their security approach, and are only moving further away from it all the time. It truly is amazing how reliable the oldest sincerity test in the book--the ability to withstand sustained eye contact--remains, despite the advent of screening technologies, bomb-sniffing dogs and so on. Still, I wonder if that approach translates equally well across all cultures--it's certainly been my experience as a traveler, for instance, that different cultures have strikingly different standards regarding how much eye contact is OK (and in which circumstances), and perhaps that *might* be an inhibiting factor in northern Europe and North America. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[deep]

looking in the eyes

is that all it is?

or is it profiling? Israel does a lot of stuff Western Nations would not and should not want to do.

I have a feeling Jewish-Israeli get through the airport a little easier than the
Arab Israeli.

A quick search, I found these

I was once involved with an Israeli Arab. An Israeli Arab who was a pacifist, and well enough known that the idea of him being suspicious on any grounds other than ethnicity was absurd. Everyone told me I should just lie on those little forms where you have to say where you'll be staying, rather than writing down an Arab name. I didn't want to lie. The result was that every single time I entered the country, I had to go through long, long interrogations, including things like questions about our sex life, delightful extra body searches, etc.

CastorpI Yesterday 01:38 PM in reply to hilzoy

A friend of a friend is an Arab Israeli. When I met him he had just returned to Israel after doing an accounting course in the US. Israeli customs officials interrogated him forever and kept asking why he didn't stay in the US. Welcome home!

 

[yolland]

^ Like that doesn't happen here? Did you also try Googling for stories from Americans who are (or appear to be) of Middle Eastern or South Asian ancestry, who felt they were singled out by TSA on that basis? As I've mentioned previously, I'm quite certain it's happened to me, and I won't even start on things Arab and South Asian friends of mine have experienced here.

Yes, I'd take for granted that, statistically, it's indeed less likely that an Arab-Israeli will get through an Israeli airport quickly, compared to his or her Jewish counterpart. Regardless, that's not the basis of either their system or ours; it's the result of racism exploiting a leeway for judgment calls which you need to leave open. We're talking fundamental approaches here. Enhanced fairness and equality towards passengers is not the reason why they're deploying these full-body scans.

 

[martha]

Humorist Dave Barry And His TSA Pat-Down : NPR

 

[Canadiens1131]

I think there is a lot to learn from Israeli airport security. The emphasis on not inconveniencing the majority of passengers most of the time is an odd concept for the TSA it seems.

The TSA also seems to suffer from the "Underpaid Restaurant Kitchen Worker" syndrome, where people who are entrusted with a very serious job aren't paid enough / trained well enough / give enough of a shit.

 

[martha]

but how does this apply to getting on a private airliner? something you choose to do?

The TSA is a government agency, still subject to the Constitution.

I choose to do a lot of things, and the Constitution protects me, even when you may not think it does.

they have metal detectors and searches at every school in new york city... should we get rid of them, because the majority of the people who pass through them aren't criminals?

I have problems with them, yes.

 

[martha]

^ Like that doesn't happen here? Did you also try Googling for stories from Americans who are (or appear to be) of Middle Eastern or South Asian ancestry, who felt they were singled out by TSA on that basis? As I've mentioned previously, I'm quite certain it's happened to me, and I won't even start on things Arab and South Asian friends of mine have experienced here.

Or American Indians.

 

[AliEnvy]

What I don't really understand is why the scanners are an advantage over metal detectors. If you beep through the metal detector they run a hand-held device over your body sans sexual assault.

If I were a frequent flyer (pilot, flight attendant, business flyer) or a celebrity (hmm naked pic on porn sites or creepy extra groping), I would be livid.

 

[BVS]

What I don't really understand is why the scanners are an advantage over metal detectors. If you beep through the metal detector they run a hand-held device over your body sans sexual assault.

If I were a frequent flyer (pilot, flight attendant, business flyer) or a celebrity (hmm naked pic on porn sites or creepy extra groping), I would be livid.

Well it's not just metal we are looking for anymore.

Celebrity naked pic? Have you seen the images?

 

[AliEnvy]

Well it's not just metal we are looking for anymore.

What else does it find exactly?

Celebrity naked pic? Have you seen the images?

Yep. Have also now seen that they are stored by the thousands and can be easily manipulated with widely available graphics software.

Regardless of the quality of the image, there's no getting around it being a privacy violation.

And likely a health hazard for frequent flyers.

 

[BVS]

What else does it find exactly?

Bombs with plastic or ceramic detonators, guns that are made of non-metals, a stick of dynamite the list is huge...

Yep. Have also now seen that they are stored by the thousands and can be easily manipulated with widely available graphics software.

Regardless of the quality of the image, there's no getting around it being a privacy violation.

Well any picture can be easily manipulated, you can place this celebrity's head on this naked models body, these are all over the internet.

And likely a health hazard for frequent flyers.

Yeah, I'm not really sure about this one, I haven't seen any evidence that this is worse than using a cell phone once a day...

 

[AliEnvy]

One of the main criticisms of the scanners, which have already been installed at 19 airports in the U.S., is that they cannot detect low-density materials such as powders, liquids, thin pieces of plastic or anything that resembles skin. Nor can they detect any explosives concealed internally.

It's only a matter of time before a terrorist shoves a powder bomb in a condom up his ass like a drug smuggler.

"Look at prison systems, where searches are far more invasive — they still can't stop contraband from being smuggled into the system," he tells TIME. But when it comes to the full-body scanners, Stewart says the bigger concern is that authorities may be diverting scarce security resources away from more proven measures, like training airport staff to detect suspicious behaviors in would-be attackers before they board planes. "We have a tendency to over-rely on technology, especially Americans, instead of human intelligence," he says.

Will Full-Body Scanners at Airports Improve Security? - TIME

 

[BVS]

It's only a matter of time before a terrorist shoves a powder bomb in a condom up his ass like a drug smuggler.

Not one aspect of life is fail proof, people will always find a way around something. It's the evolution of life.

I'm not convinced either way to be honest.

I'm just irritated that some people want secure flights but don't want anything to change, and others just want to complain and not offer alternatives.

 

[Canadiens1131]

TSA-sponsored prostate massage?

Can I get a lady to do it?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm just irritated that some people want secure flights but don't want anything to change, and others just want to complain and not offer alternatives.

.

 

[diamond]

I agree w BVS here.

<>

 

[BVS]

 

[BoMac]

 

[BVS]

 

[AliEnvy]

I'm just irritated that some people want secure flights but don't want anything to change, and others just want to complain and not offer alternatives.

Who are you referring to?

 

[martha]

I didn't think of the sexual assault to check for "bombs" so I don't think it's my job to come up with an alternative.

It's OK for us to be pissed that this is happening, just as it's OK for some to roll over and take any Constitutional violation in the the name of "safety."

 

[BVS]

Who are you referring to?

Hundreds of people, some in here, some on the talk shows, etc...

 

[AliEnvy]

So these people were complaining that security wasn't good enough before the scanners? Really?

That virtually 99.999999999999% of flights are safe but complainers aren't offering up ways to close the gap? Really?

None of this makes any rational sense whatsoever. Except the part where the Homeland Security guy is making tons of money.

 

[financeguy]

My take regarding the debate regarding security checks on flights and the broader issue of safeguarding the safety of the populace - given the ongoing, and far from resolved, economic depression in countries like Greece, Ireland and Portugal - the proximate terrorist threat may come not from Pakistan, Iran or Yemen but rather from closer to home.

Let me put it this way - there are a lot of very scared and angry people right now in some parts of Europe, and they are not necessarily all of the Muslim persuasion. The elites have become so out of touch with the populace that it is difficult for me to see the situation being resolved without some degree of political violence.

I have been told by several sources that the Irish police have recently drafted in new riot gear and speedily 'up-skilled' ordinary cops into riot police just in case it gets bad.

A German told me recently that the real situation with the Germany economy is much less healthy than the official statistics are presenting.

Ultimately, the markets will trump politics and the eurozone will be cast assunder, I sincerely hope that not too many more have to die before the elite give up on their globalist folly.

 

[BVS]

So these people were complaining that security wasn't good enough before the scanners? Really?

Yes, are you honestly saying you haven't heard these people?

That virtually 99.999999999999% of flights are safe but complainers aren't offering up ways to close the gap? Really?

Well this is similar to the we haven't had another attack on US soil so Bush was winning the war on terror logic...

None of this makes any rational sense whatsoever.

What doesn't make sense? So since we haven't had attacks means everything's cool? Isn't this what we thought pre 9/11?

If you troubleshoot I'm sure you could easily think of a half dozen ways how you smuggle something on the plane.

 

[the iron horse]

All Israeli airplane flights have at least one agent or two with a concealed firearm on board.

Guns are good to have in the hands of good guys.

The bad guys will always have weapons intent on evil.

 

[AliEnvy]

Yes, are you honestly saying you haven't heard these people?



Well this is similar to the we haven't had another attack on US soil so Bush was winning the war on terror logic...


What doesn't make sense? So since we haven't had attacks means everything's cool? Isn't this what we thought pre 9/11?

If you troubleshoot I'm sure you could easily think of a half dozen ways how you smuggle something on the plane.

1. No, I don't watch US cable news shows.
2. Or maybe just an observation that current security practices are reasonable.
3. It doesn't make sense to just bow to every security "enhancement" the TSA proclaims to protect the country. If enough people believe the scanners vs sexual humiliation are harmful, then they need to go.

 

[BVS]

All Israeli airplane flights have at least one agent or two with a concealed firearm on board.

Guns are good to have in the hands of good guys.

The bad guys will always have weapons intent on evil.

Except when the bad guys are able to obtain the gun from the good guy.

Except when a bullet blows out a window and depressurizes the cabin.