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Old 11-26-2010, 07:46 PM   #376
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Are there posters depicting Merkel as Stalin yet? Or maybe Catherine the Great...
Wrong thread, surely?
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Old 11-26-2010, 07:48 PM   #377
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Maybe yolland is suggesting that both Merkel and Catherine the Great would have been all for full cavity searches at the airports?

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Old 11-26-2010, 07:57 PM   #378
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Well, since everything apparently one way or another boils down to a referendum on the EU neo-liberal despotism right now, it just seemed as good a place as any.

I have no doubt Catherine the Great would've approved of full cavity searches, as far as that goes. Maybe also "bomb-sniffing" Borzoi packs whose true purpose is to rip apart resisters from limb to limb. Merkel, I don't know, she has that history of getting all squirmy around touchy-feely people.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:11 PM   #379
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I think the fear of Americans is overrated.
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Given the rise in terrorist activity over the past few years, particularly around planes, I'm willing to give up a certain degree of privacy if it means ensuring the safety of myself and my fellow passengers. If I'm not interested in doing so, I don't have to fly.

You're willing to give up your Constitutional rights or opt out of flying, yet you say the fear of Americans is overrated?
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:28 PM   #380
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Well, since everything apparently one way or another boils down to a referendum on the EU neo-liberal despotism right now, it just seemed as good a place as any.
I think perhaps you are being mildy sarcastic at my expense, but there are plenty of critiques of the EU project - mainly from the far left but some from the right, particularly British sources in respect of the latter - which argued that the EU was precisely intended as that all along - a kind of a stalking horse for neo-liberal globalism, as it were. A fundamentally anti-democratic project foisted upon the populace by mad, authoritarian power-freaks, to be crude.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:35 PM   #381
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I can only imagine what happens if you're a woman wearing a pad or a tampon (don't know if the scanner can see tampons). Maybe we should just take those out in the line too and put them in the bin?
Apparently you get groped!

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Old 11-26-2010, 09:02 PM   #382
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I think perhaps you are being mildy sarcastic at my expense, but there are plenty of critiques of the EU project - mainly from the far left but some from the right, particularly British sources in respect of the latter - which argued that the EU was precisely intended as that all along - a kind of a stalking horse for neo-liberal globalism, as it were. A fundamentally anti-democratic project foisted upon the populace by mad, authoritarian power-freaks, to be crude.
Yes, it was grumpy sarcasm. I'm not unsympathetic to criticism that the EU is effectively anti-democratic, though I wouldn't consider the relevant politicians "mad" or "freaks" any more than I would the bankers who've embarrassed them. Perennial opportunism toxically intertwining with perennial distrusts, maybe ("Pilfering treasury property is particularly dangerous; big thieves are ruthless in punishing little thieves"--Diogenes, I think). Likewise there are obvious correlations between TSA excesses, paranoia towards Muslims, obsession with terrorism, neo -imperialist/-con/-liberal/-take your pick militancy, and questionable legal gymnastics to facilitate the above. But leaping to connect the dots into some overarching world domination plot, as opposed to focused, concerted opposition to wrongheaded measures at the time they're introduced, weakens the effectiveness of protest and, worse, arguably risks descending into the approach of the most hardcore-opponent "freaks." martha's on the right track honing in on the debatable constitutionality of TSA's latest strategy, as is anyone who protests that this is an exceedingly inefficient way to do security, or that it's just plain over-the-line humiliating. Is it hypocritical that some who raised no objections to the Patriot Act are screeching now, sure, but that's predictable since that directly inconvenienced far fewer people, and if anything it illustrates how important organizing the opposed to fight back in a maximally concerted way is.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:32 PM   #383
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I know I feel so much safer knowing that menstruating women are being traumatized.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:39 PM   #384
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See, that's the kind of thing I meant by "just plain over-the-line humiliating."

(That said, did they really need to include a hyperlink to a polka-dot pantyliner order form? I know, I know, no one made me click on it...)
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:42 PM   #385
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I had to go back and click on it just to see.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:43 PM   #386
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^ Me too.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:17 PM   #387
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Yes, it was grumpy sarcasm. I'm not unsympathetic to criticism that the EU is effectively anti-democratic, though I wouldn't consider the relevant politicians "mad" or "freaks" any more than I would the bankers who've embarrassed them. Perennial opportunism toxically intertwining with perennial distrusts, maybe ("Pilfering treasury property is particularly dangerous; big thieves are ruthless in punishing little thieves"--Diogenes, I think). Likewise there are obvious correlations between TSA excesses, paranoia towards Muslims, obsession with terrorism, neo -imperialist/-con/-liberal/-take your pick militancy, and questionable legal gymnastics to facilitate the above. But leaping to connect the dots into some overarching world domination plot, as opposed to focused, concerted opposition to wrongheaded measures at the time they're introduced, weakens the effectiveness of protest and, worse, arguably risks descending into the approach of the most hardcore-opponent "freaks." martha's on the right track honing in on the debatable constitutionality of TSA's latest strategy, as is anyone who protests that this is an exceedingly inefficient way to do security, or that it's just plain over-the-line humiliating. Is it hypocritical that some who raised no objections to the Patriot Act are screeching now, sure, but that's predictable since that directly inconvenienced far fewer people, and if anything it illustrates how important organizing the opposed to fight back in a maximally concerted way is.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:47 PM   #388
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Yeah, I know. But almost any theory can become a boiling frog story, like the Dolchstosslegende for example. If people (given the choice) can't be arsed to resist immoral, dangerous or stupid policies without the aid of this kind of doomsday populism, I tend to think they're probably getting the societies they deserve. Maybe that's a personal bias. I suppose I can see a case for "morale-building" purposes. But I still distrust the motives of people who trade in them, what they might do themselves once in power.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:04 AM   #389
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You're willing to give up your Constitutional rights or opt out of flying, yet you say the fear of Americans is overrated?
I didn't realize that a willingness to sacrifice certain personal liberties for the sake of public safety meant that I was quivering in my Keds.

Surely, however, there has to be a happy medium between groping menstruating women and (to use the example kramwest suggested) taking the hands-off, "hey, terrorism happens, people die, bummer" approach to airport security.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:13 AM   #390
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I didn't realize that a willingness to sacrifice certain personal liberties for the sake of public safety meant that I was quivering in my Keds.
But the willingness to be assaulted in the name of "safety," the willingness to allow a Constitutional right to be continuously violated, and the willingness to "sacrifice certain personal liberties" IS fear. Plain old fear.

How many more personal liberties will you be willing to sacrifice for "safety"?

I'm done sacrificing any more liberty.


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Surely, however, there has to be a happy medium between groping menstruating women and (to use the example kramwest suggested) taking the hands-off, "hey, terrorism happens, people die, bummer" approach to airport security.
You keep defending the policies that allow those women and men to be assaulted.
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