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Old 04-19-2010, 07:09 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
Sounds good. I'll go ask the people who have died if they would have died had they not taken the vaccine.

Or if they properly screened, was it administrated correctly, etc...

Yeah, real research would be needed.

Right now, that hasn't happened. Just agenda driven "hysteria".
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:15 PM   #32
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Death of six children not due to HPV

The Hindu, 17 April 2010

NEW DELHI -- Six children who were administered imported brands of the human papilloma vaccine (HPV) have died, the government told Parliament on Friday. While the causes of death have not been attributed to the vaccine in any of these cases, the States have been advised not to carry out any more vaccinations. The two imported brands Gardasil and Cervarix “were allowed to undergo clinical trial (Phase III) in India, before granting permission to import and market authorisation,” Minister of State for Health and Family Welfare S. Gandhiselvan told the Lok Sabha on Friday in a written response to a question. “For assessing the health services needs and preparedness for introducing [HPV] vaccines into the health services in the future, PATH, an international NGO, was given permission for a post-licensure observational study of HPV vaccination in Khammam district [Andhra Pradesh] and Vadodara district [Gujarat].”

Six deaths, four in Andhra Pradesh and two in Gujarat, have been reported from among the 24,705 children administered these vaccines, he said. The causes of the deaths were determined as “viral fever, drowning, suicide, severe anaemia with malaria and suspected snake bite.”

Reports of the death of four girls in Andhra Pradesh had initially sparked off complaints from civil society groups.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:36 PM   #33
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I for one am shocked.
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:26 PM   #34
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Truth is freedom.
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:15 AM   #35
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But *gasp* what will this news do to family values people - those who want to deny good foresight and future sexual health (and life! this vaccine can be life saving!) to girls and young women??

Whoever called this thread disgusting earlier was putting it mildly. This poster has a history of twisting quotes and "statistics" to suit a conservative, anti-feminist agenda.

I guess the girls can stop being "sluts" and then depend on their future husbands to tell the truth that they're virgins too...because that always works, right??

Fucking unreal that we're even having this discussion.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:20 AM   #36
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To be fair there have been plenty of anti-feminist posts in the history of fym-whether they used quotes or statistics or not. And plenty of such threads that I personally found to be disgusting because of the agenda I believed to be behind them-or it was just blatant.

So perhaps it's easy to assume he was doing that here- but I give him the benefit of the doubt until he answers that, if he cares to. I don't think womens health should be considered to be a feminist issue-it's a human issue. But I guess since sex is involved suddenly that changes.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
Whoever called this thread disgusting earlier was putting it mildly. This poster has a history of twisting quotes and "statistics" to suit a conservative, anti-feminist agenda.
And FYM posters have a history of resorting to name calling when they're confronted with something outside their worldview. Or is it "disgusting" to ask questions now? Free your mind, indeed.

I didn't realize that raising questions about public health -- particularly in the face of a vaccine that is being manufactured and sold by a pharmaceutical company that was hit with the largest multi-state settlement ever, after being convicted of using deceptive marketing tactics to sell Vioxx -- made me anti-feminist.

Good old FYM.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:57 PM   #38
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I think the problem started with the bias of the doctor involved and other issues. Honestly I can't remember any other thread you started that twisted things in any anti-feminist agenda-then again at this point so much of all of it is a blur for me. I didn't assume any motives or motivations on your part.

For some people it's an issue of conservative agendas meddling in the health of women-like I said, once sex is involved...so maybe when you look at it from that point of view it can create motives that aren't necessarily there. It becomes a very sensitive issue for women.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:14 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977 View Post
And FYM posters have a history of resorting to name calling when they're confronted with something outside their worldview. Or is it "disgusting" to ask questions now? Free your mind, indeed.

I didn't realize that raising questions about public health -- particularly in the face of a vaccine that is being manufactured and sold by a pharmaceutical company that was hit with the largest multi-state settlement ever, after being convicted of using deceptive marketing tactics to sell Vioxx -- made me anti-feminist.

Good old FYM.

The first day you put this thread up, I did some googling and came to different conclusions than you. That happens often times in this forum and many other venues when people discuss certain topics.

I chose not to jump in and challenge your premises. I figured this thread might not get many replies and just slide off the first page.

I hoped not to see 'mean spirited' replies. I am sorry that some resort to rudeness, when posting a credible rebuttle would have been the better course.

We all have bias' and agendas. The only question is, are honest enough to identfy them.
Some of these bias are more popular within groups and tolerated more.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:38 PM   #40
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Some biases directly kill, for instance children who have died of measles because their parents chose not to immunize them.

The anti-vaccination lobby has a negative impact on public health and it shouldn't be understated
Quote:
Measles cases in England and Wales rose by 36% in 2008, figures show.
Confirmed cases increased from 990 in 2007 to 1,348 last year - the highest figure since the monitoring scheme was introduced in 1995.
Health Protection Agency experts said most of the cases had been in children not fully vaccinated with combined MMR and so could have been prevented.
Immunisation expert Dr Mary Ramsay said the rise was "very worrying", adding measles "should not be taken lightly".
More than 600 of the 2008 measles cases occurred in London, where uptake of the vaccine for MMR - measles, mumps and rubella - is particularly low.
Public confidence in the triple MMR vaccine dipped following research - since discredited - which raised the possibility that the jab may be linked to an increased risk of autism.
It led to some parents opting to pay privately for single vaccines.
Across the UK, 84.5% of two year olds have been immunised with their first dose of MMR.
But by age five, when children are recommended to have a second dose, the latest uptake figures are 77.9%.

Since 2005, the number of cases of measles has been rising year on year.
There have also been sporadic outbreaks of mumps in recent years.
Last summer, England's Chief Medical Officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, announced a catch-up programme for those who had not received one or more doses of MMR.
The Department of Health, which said the latest figures were concerning, has provided extra funding to PCTs and additional supplies of vaccine.
BBC NEWS | Health | Rise in measles 'very worrying'
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:42 PM   #41
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I agree, and good information is the treatment for bad information.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
Honestly I can't remember any other thread you started that twisted things in any anti-feminist agenda-then again at this point so much of all of it is a blur for me. I didn't assume any motives or motivations on your part.
Thank you. I'm not sure what threads VP was referring to -- but we often have differences of opinions.

Quote:
For some people it's an issue of conservative agendas meddling in the health of women-like I said, once sex is involved...so maybe when you look at it from that point of view it can create motives that aren't necessarily there. It becomes a very sensitive issue for women.
From another perspective, as the father of two little girls, if I'm going to consent to give them a vaccination that is said to protect them from cervical cancer, I'm going to make sure they don't die as a result of it. I don't think there's anything anti-feminist about that...
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:44 PM   #43
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I agree, and good information is the treatment for bad information.
Nice point, Deep
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
The first day you put this thread up, I did some googling and came to different conclusions than you. That happens often times in this forum and many other venues when people discuss certain topics.

I chose not to jump in and challenge your premises. I figured this thread might not get many replies and just slide off the first page.

I hoped not to see 'mean spirited' replies. I am sorry that some resort to rudeness, when posting a credible rebuttle would have been the better course.

We all have bias' and agendas. The only question is, are honest enough to identfy them.
Some of these bias are more popular within groups and tolerated more.
Appreciate the gracious response, deep.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:43 PM   #45
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Admittedly, I'm not very well-versed in the political issues surrounding the vaccine, such as the potential conservative agenda, but I don't think it should be called anti-feminist to question the vaccine, or its widespread use. Where I live, it's been marketed as something that every young girl should get, and if she's not, she's being irresponsible with her body. From what I've read though, cervical cancer (potentially caused by HPV) is actually the most treatable cancer there is, as long as one gets their yearly PAP. So portraying a vaccine that may not be fully researched as something that is necessary to save a girl from HPV and if we withhold it we are risking womens' lives isn't really the best way to represent the situation.

Also, HPV is pretty much the common cold of sex. If you have had sex with someone who has had sex with someone else then you can consider yourself exposed. So Gardasil actually seems like a kind of an unnecessary vaccine and considering the nature of HPV it would be unwise to unnecessarily inflict it if there's any question of it being unsafe, since it's just not necessary.

I don't know if this is too off-topic or not, but I just thought I'd throw this info out there. It seems more a matter of prudence to question the vaccine rather than something driven by a conservative agenda or anti-feminist motivations.
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