Jive Turkey
ONE love, blood, life
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
- Messages
- 13,645
Are you talking to me?
I quoted you, didn't I?
Are you talking to me?
So now we have jumped from looking at a woman twice to sex trafficking in barely a turn of phrase.I'll never forget something I heard once: "to a liar, the world is full of liars, and to a thief, the world is full of thieves." The idea being that, in our own eyes, our dysfunctional behavior sometimes seems very normal. That doesn't make it right.
My earlier comment had nothing to do with masturbation, and more to do with the far more pervasive mentality of many that someone else is simply an object for your gratification. With the mentality of many who think it's fine to use others purely for your own sexual pleasure. It's a mentality that fuels industries from porn to sex trafficking.
I'll never forget something I heard once: "to a liar, the world is full of liars, and to a thief, the world is full of thieves." The idea being that, in our own eyes, our dysfunctional behavior sometimes seems very normal. That doesn't make it right.
OK, seriously?
If I'm away on business and my partner whacks off and thinks of me, I don't see it as dysfunction. Sorry. Frankly I'd see the opposite as concerning.
I quoted you, didn't I?
I'd think that it would be safe to assume that most people masturbate (it is healthy and completely normal) and what's more, that most of those who do have at some point had a fantasy play out in their head that included whoever - their boyfriend, girlfriend, George Clooney, Angelina Jolie. And I wouldn't consider this to be a depravity either.
I'm suppose to ask for forgiveness for having thoughts pop into my head? That seems rather tyrannical of God, doesn't it?
I am saying that you have practically no control over fleeting thoughts. Let's say I meet a neighbor who has an attractive wife. Am I a sinner if my first, unchecked thought is that I would enjoy having sex with her? According to that commandment, I am.
That's what I mean when I talk about thoughtcrime.
OK, seriously?
If I'm away on business and my partner whacks off and thinks of me, I don't see it as dysfunction. Sorry. Frankly I'd see the opposite as concerning.
And I'm not about to persecute a guy simply because he's human and thought a woman he saw was really sexy.
It's a nice idea in theory, having eyes for one person alone, but it's not exactly a realistic one. That's an issue many have with religion, on the one hand we're told we'll never be perfect and live up to *Insert deity of choice here*'s ideal, but on the other hand we also have people telling us all these behaviors we must abide by in order to even come close to his perfection. Are we forever imperfect or not? And if we are forever imperfect, why put such unrealistic behavioral standards on us if they know full well we'll fall short of them often?
This is not a fair comparison. It is, with all due a respect, a conveniently self-serving one though. "Let's make it so that Nathan is saying my partner/spouse is sinning if they are fantasizing about me while he/she is masturbating. Then we can all congratulate ourselves on what a prude he is."
A fairer comparison would be "If I'm making a presentation at work and my colleague is fantasizing about me naked while I'm talking, and then excuses himself to the restroom to complete the mental fantasy, I don't see it as dysfunction." Such an argument would at least not be misrepresenting Nathan and challenging what he's actually saying rather than a useful straw man.
I think it's fair in the sense that it's related to a prior post in which I specifically brought up people fantasizing about their boyfriends or girlfriends while masturbating and Nathan, in response to that said that just because we don't think it's dysfunctional doesn't mean it's so. I also included a couple of celebrities there, so maybe he skipped past the partners and concentrated on them, but it seemed to me that he was lumping any sort of fantasy in with inappropriate sexual objectification and I don't agree with it.
I understand now. I went back followed the series of posts and I can see why you responded as you did. I agree with you. I suspect Nathan actually does too, and it was just a misunderstanding. But I'll let him speak for himself.
I just wanted to make sure that you'd resorted to name-calling. You've made your position about the whole issue of sin clear; I'm not sure that calling me a repressed, shamed, lying prude strengthens your case (or, frankly, elevates the discussion).
A fairer comparison would be "If I'm making a presentation at work and my colleague is fantasizing about me naked while I'm talking, and then excuses himself to the restroom to complete the mental fantasy, I don't see it as dysfunction." Such an argument would at least not be misrepresenting Nathan and challenging what he's actually saying rather than a useful straw man.
My counterargument would be:
“Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habit. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.”
― Lao Tzu
I'm not arguing that fleeting thoughts are sinful. In my opinion, sin can't apply to things that one can't control. This is why feelings of any kind are neither right nor wrong, but are morally neutral, because you can't control them. What you choose to do with those thoughts is where sin comes in, and that can apply to internal thought processes as well as outward actions. After all, I'm sure you're not suggesting that all thought is beyond our control.
Same thought here...Interesting how a thead about sin/crime/morality became about masterbation.
we've yet to descend into a rape based society
Interesting how a thead about sin/crime/morality became about masterbation.
Isn't that what "hottest chicks..." thread is about?
i'd like to know, however, what one should be thinking when one is masturbating or having sex.
I don't give a rip about masturbation. I do care about rape.
Masturbation is bad, Jive. Genitalia should only be touched when ...... being mutilated for circumcisions.
According to the Colorado Coalition Against Sexual Assault, 1 of 6 U.S. women have experienced an attempted or completed rape.
Do you have anything to offer but casual ridicule?
And you complain about BVS.