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Old 06-24-2012, 03:04 PM   #151
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So slowly moral standards are being replaced by personal tastes and feelings. Count me as one who sees that as a danger to a civil society and self-governance.
The younger generation, if I may speak for it, is getting exhausted by the older generation's need to tell us how shitty we are all the time.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:19 PM   #152
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yeah, the people fucking things up with their selfishness are the people born 1945-1965. they want health care and social security for themselves, but not for poor people or for younger people. nor do they want to pay taxes. they want all that shit for free, yo.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:05 PM   #153
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yeah, the people fucking things up with their selfishness are the people born 1945-1965. they want health care and social security for themselves, but not for poor people or for younger people. nor do they want to pay taxes. they want all that shit for free, yo.
B.S. The Great Society started an $8 trillion War on Poverty to provide food, shelter and health care to the poor. Now it's also been very destructive to communities and families so I'd vote to replace it. Would you?

I'd support letting young people opt out of S.S and raise the retirement age. Would you?
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:42 PM   #154
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Exactly. I don't think having sins is bad. But I think the selective method of employing them is more the issue. Treating homosexuality like its an ailment is the issue. And excusing it as religious compassion is infuriating.

I think part of my frustration stems from the fact that I am surrounded constantly by very religious people and wish they could understand where I am coming from. But I know they cannot. So I have to live the lie of being a lapsed Catholic instead of an anti-theist with conviction. I fear that I have taken out on some religious people here my personal frustrations with the way that religion has misled my friends and family.
If your parents are as religious and politically conservative as you make them out to be I'd just remind them of this. Our Founders thought enough of the importance of faith to our survival as a country that they tied our rights to God, not man. But they also saw religious tyranny and coercion as an affront to liberty.

It's easy for a Christian to speak out when Catholics, for example, are mandated to act against their religious conscience. It's much harder, but no less important, to respect the right of "free exercise" of those that practice a different religion or choose not to practice a religion.
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The younger generation, if I may speak for it, is getting exhausted by the older generation's need to tell us how shitty we are all the time.
Yes it must be exhausting to be the first generation ridiculed by older generations.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:20 PM   #155
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If your parents are as religious and politically conservative as you make them out to be I'd just remind them of this. Our Founders thought enough of the importance of faith to our survival as a country that they tied our rights to God, not man. But they also saw religious tyranny and coercion as an affront to liberty.

It's easy for a Christian to speak out when Catholics, for example, are mandated to act against their religious conscience. It's much harder, but no less important, to respect the right of "free exercise" of those that practice a different religion or choose not to practice a religion.
I'm not sure what you're on about here, unless you honestly think name-dropping the Founding Fathers is a game-changer in normal discourse.

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Yes it must be exhausting to be the first generation ridiculed by older generations.
At least our generation still has a chance to not continue the cycle of blaming all of its woes on young people.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:40 PM   #156
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Peef, are you anti-theism or anti-religion? Two very different ideas. My father is a fundie and hates church, the people there, etc.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:46 PM   #157
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Both. I don't believe in God.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #158
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B.S. The Great Society started an $8 trillion War on Poverty to provide food, shelter and health care to the poor. Now it's also been very destructive to communities and families so I'd vote to replace it. Would you?

I'd support letting young people opt out of S.S and raise the retirement age. Would you?


both your information and conclusions are wrong.

American society today is vastly less harsh and much more merciful than it was in the 1950s. today, children don't starve and the elderly don't die in poverty the way that they did in the good old days. there were no good old days. it's a lie conservatives tell themselves.

i agree with raising the retirement age.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:10 PM   #159
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I'm not sure what you're on about here, unless you honestly think name-dropping the Founding Fathers is a game-changer in normal discourse.

for Tea Mobsters, it's a trump card similar to, "why that sounds like something Hitler would say."
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:39 PM   #160
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Both. I don't believe in God.
I think you're looking for the term "atheist," unless you're saying that you consider a belief in a deity to be a dangerous idea that should be wiped from a public consciousness, in which case you would be "anti-theist." Really not trying to nitpick, I'm just trying to figure out what your beliefs are via pretty useless labels.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:39 PM   #161
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At least our generation still has a chance to not continue the cycle of blaming all of its woes on young people.
I wouldn't count on that. I mean if the "Don't Trust Anyone Over 30" generation couldn't do it, I doubt you guys will be able to do it.

Kids these days. . . smh.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:10 PM   #162
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I think you're looking for the term "atheist," unless you're saying that you consider a belief in a deity to be a dangerous idea that should be wiped from a public consciousness, in which case you would be "anti-theist." Really not trying to nitpick, I'm just trying to figure out what your beliefs are via pretty useless labels.
I am not as aggressive as someone like Hitchens, but I do think we would all be better off without religion. I'm probably somewhere between.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:18 PM   #163
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both your information and conclusions are wrong.

American society today is vastly less harsh and much more merciful than it was in the 1950s. today, children don't starve and the elderly don't die in poverty the way that they did in the good old days. there were no good old days. it's a lie conservatives tell themselves.

i agree with raising the retirement age.
If millions don't waste their lives, their talents, their skills, their creativity, in dependency, if millions are put in a position whereby they never experience the learned behaviour of dependency - then I'm fully prepared to argue for a return to a pre-Great Society society - even at a cost of a tiny % dying prematurely of starvation.

While it is probably true, in a sense, to state that American society is "less harsh" than in the 1950s, unfortunately, this has come at the cost of a massive increase in the federal debt, and somewhere down the line, that has to be repaid. In fact, the western world is currently undergoing the painful, harsh process of being reminded that societies cannot live beyond their means in the long run.

And this, I think, neatly crystallizes the difference between conservatism and liberalism. Life, at it's core, is harsh and difficult at times. Conservatives don't deny this, whereas liberals attempt to solve the problem by giving enough money to everyone, by redistribution of income. Not only does this not solve the problem, it builds up even bigger problems in the long run. As Thatcher put it, the problem with socialists that eventually they run out of other peoples' money.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:20 PM   #164
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If millions don't waste their lives, their talents, their skills, their creativity, in dependency, if millions are put in a position whereby they never experience the learned behaviour of dependency - then I'm fully prepared to argue for a return to a pre-Great Society society - even at a cost of a tiny % dying prematurely of starvation.
Of course you would, you're a straight, white man.

Ain't that great of a deal for the rest of us.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:24 PM   #165
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If millions don't waste their lives, their talents, their skills, their creativity, in dependency, if millions are put in a position whereby they never experience the learned behaviour of dependency - then I'm fully prepared to argue for a return to a pre-Great Society society - even at a cost of a tiny % dying prematurely of starvation.

While it is probably true, in a sense, to state that American society is "less harsh" than in the 1950s, unfortunately, this has come at the cost of a massive increase in the federal debt, and somewhere down the line, that has to be repaid. In fact, the western world is currently undergoing the painful, harsh process of being reminded that societies cannot live beyond their means in the long run.

And this, I think, neatly crystallizes the difference between conservatism and liberalism. Life, at it's core, is harsh and difficult at times. Conservatives don't deny this, whereas liberals attempt to solve the problem by giving enough money to everyone, by redistribution of income. Not only does this not solve the problem, it builds up even bigger problems in the long run. As Thatcher put it, the problem with socialists that eventually they run out of other peoples' money.
So, basically what you're saying is selfishness vs selflessness?
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