Silvio Berlusconi's parties: Italian prosecutors to question 30 women

[financeguy]

Silvio Berlusconi's parties: Italian prosecutors to question 30 women - Telegraph

I take this as proof that the Europeans do sex scandals much better than Americans.

 

[deep]

He should immigrate to the U S

the Republicans are looking for some new candidates.

 

[yolland]

Wonder how this will play with the Italian public.

 

[Bonoa]

He should immigrate to the U S

the Republicans are looking for some new candidates.

 

[BoMac]

Wonder how this will play with the Italian public.

Hard to say. We're talking about a country that has had more than 60 governments since World War II, and Berlusconi himself has been tried multiple times only to be acquitted either during the original trial or on appeal. And this is his third stint as prime minister.

So, will this be the scandal that breaks the Italian public's back? I don't think so given history, but you never know.

 

[achtung_girl]

He should immigrate to the U S

the Republicans are looking for some new candidates.

*rofl*

Hard to say. We're talking about a country that has had more than 60 governments since World War II, and Berlusconi himself has been tried multiple times only to be acquitted either during the original trial or on appeal. And this is his third stint as prime minister.

So, will this be the scandal that breaks the Italian public's back? I don't think so given history, but you never know.

yup! As long as most of the italians say, 'better Berlusconi than someone who does not care about us', those scandals don't affect the public that much. Of course there are lots of people who think that this is really embarrassing, but most italians (especially those who live in the cities) think that he could do whatever he wants in his private life.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Hard to say. We're talking about a country that has had more than 60 governments since World War II, and Berlusconi himself has been tried multiple times only to be acquitted either during the original trial or on appeal. And this is his third stint as prime minister.

So, will this be the scandal that breaks the Italian public's back? I don't think so given history, but you never know.

I just saw the film Il Divo about Guilio Andreotti's Mafia trial and multiple acquittals. He was made Senator for Life for his crimes so I'm guessing nothing much is going to happen with this.

 

[deep]

I just saw the film Il Divo.

wanted to see that

it got very good reviews

it only played one week at my art house theater

 

[joyfulgirl]

wanted to see that

it got very good reviews

it only played one week at my art house theater

I was a little lost at times because there were so many characters introduced so fast and I couldn't keep up with them, and I didn't know the era in Italian political history at all. Yet, I was riveted to the screen at the same time and finally decided that I didn't have to get who every single person was to get the overall story. Stylistically, I loved it. But being able to rewind would have been nice.

 

[purpleoscar]

Hey was Tom Cruise at any of these parties?

YouTube - Eyes Wide Shut - Masked Ball

 

[AliEnvy]

 

[purpleoscar]

I take this as proof that the Europeans do sex scandals much better than Americans.

I think you might have a point if this is true:

Let�s Burst the Bubble by Mark Steyn on National Review Online

I was asked the other day about the difference between American and British sex scandals. In its heyday, Brit sex was about the action — Lord Lambton’s three-in-a-bed bi-racial sex romp; Harvey Proctor’s industrial-scale spanking of rent boys; Max Mosley’s Nazi bondage sessions, with a fine eye for historical accuracy and the orders barked out in surprisingly accurate German; Stephen Milligan’s accidental auto-erotic asphyxiation while lying on a kitchen table wearing fishnet stockings . . . With the exception of the last ill-fated foray, there was an insouciance to these remarkably specialized peccadilloes.

 

[deep]

who is more studly

Vladimir ?

or Silvio?

 

[yolland]

Vlad. No question. If one must make the comparison.

 

[Irvine511]

He should immigrate to the U S

the Republicans are looking for some new candidates.

these were women, deep.

no way would that fly with the GOP.

unless there were diapers involved.

 

[financeguy]

What does that even mean?

 

[Irvine511]

What does that even mean?

Republican sex scandals have been trending gay lately.

unless you were a Senator from Louisiana and you wanted prostitutes to dress you up in diapers, like this guy:

 

[financeguy]

So why are there so many closet gays in the Republican party?

 

[yolland]

unless there were diapers involved.

Or an invigorating hike on the Appalachian Trail.

 

[deep]

seriously,
did you get a look at that?

who wouldn't want to
get on their (hiking) boots

 

[Irvine511]

So why are there so many closet gays in the Republican party?

there was a study done -- it was mentioned to me in passing today, and i don't really have the time to dig it up -- where a series of self-described heterosexual men were shown pictures of naked men. as it turned out, those who were the most homophobic were those most aroused by the nude pictures.

so it's something along those lines.

 

[financeguy]

there was a study done -- it was mentioned to me in passing today, and i don't really have the time to dig it up -- where a series of self-described heterosexual men were shown pictures of naked men. as it turned out, those who were the most homophobic were those most aroused by the nude pictures.

so it's something along those lines.

Ok, that's one theory.

Or maybe, you know, some gay people actually are pretty right wing.

 

[yolland]

Or, sometimes what is genuinely (not necessarily rationally) reviled or feared is therefore more arousing.

 

[Irvine511]

Ok, that's one theory.

Or maybe, you know, some gay people actually are pretty right wing.

yes, some gay people are.

but conservative, self-identified gay people tend not to be members of Congress.

 

[financeguy]

yes, some gay people are.

but conservative, self-identified gay people tend not to be members of Congress.

So presumably you would blame homophobia for the closeted Republican gays that become embroiled in sex scandals?

 

[Irvine511]

So presumably you would blame homophobia for the closeted Republican gays that become embroiled in sex scandals?

in sweeping, broad sense, yes.

but i also blame the spread of HIV mostly on homophobia as well, so make of that what you will.

 

[financeguy]

in sweeping, broad sense, yes.

but i also blame the spread of HIV mostly on homophobia as well, so make of that what you will.

Well, that's not particularly scientific; but fair enough, you've acknowledged that it's a sweeping, broad statement.

Isn't it equally valid to claim - and, granted, in a sweeping, broad and unscientific sense once again - that some gay individuals hold right wing political beliefs (perhaps very right wing political beliefs in some cases), and that of that subset of gay people, some are sufficiently motivated to get involved in politics and run for election for the Republican party, in the full knowledge that they have to keep their 'gayness' closeted? In other words, that they're not necessarily in denial about anything, they just make a kind of compromise with their own consciences. (So, for example, a gay politician who held pro-interventionist foreign policy beliefs might fit this thesis).

Isn't that thesis as valid as - and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it's what you seem to be saying - 'it's the homophobic straight society that caused these scandals'?

 

[yolland]

^ Aren't you saying the same thing? Why do they have to "keep their 'gayness' closeted"?

 

[financeguy]

^ Aren't you saying the same thing? Why do they have to "keep their 'gayness' closeted"?

I take your point, but I don't think we're arguing precisely the same thing.

For the sake of argument, a gay politician who held strong pro-Zionist opinions - and it's easy to understand why, given homophobia of some Middle Eastern societies - might make a deliberate decision to get involved with the Republican party in order to advance those beliefs, if such an individual made a judgement call that the Republican party were more likely to support Israel than the Democrats. That person could chose to remain in the closet - even make a big deal of being pro-traditional marriage, pro-family values, etc, - for political reasons. Such a person, if he or she existed, and I am not necessarily claiming they do, wouldn't be a closeted, self-hating gay that had internalised homopobia, they'd just be someone making a calculated and pragmatic political decision.

A similar argument could be advanced in respect of a gay politican who had fervent pro free market, anti socialist beliefs.

In other words, these - admittedly hypothetical, but conceivable - cases, don't fit with the theory that these Republican scandals are because some gay men internalise their homophobia by adopting right wing Christian conservative type beliefs.

 

[yolland]

I suppose maybe if said man were a childless bachelor with a well-established practice of keeping his private life private (a category enough straight men belong to that it wouldn't necessarily arouse suspicion by itself) and a cynically blase view of gay rights. But that's not the norm in American politics. And you have to take into account that managing to keep such a basic aspect of one's life hidden from public view will probably involve years of lying to and deceiving a whole lot of people, not just anonymous constituents and unlikely-ally colleagues, which is a pretty warping way to live.