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Old 08-04-2009, 06:26 PM   #16
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What does that even mean?
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:27 PM   #17
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What does that even mean?


Republican sex scandals have been trending gay lately.

unless you were a Senator from Louisiana and you wanted prostitutes to dress you up in diapers, like this guy:

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Old 08-04-2009, 06:30 PM   #18
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So why are there so many closet gays in the Republican party?
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:33 PM   #19
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unless there were diapers involved.
Or an invigorating hike on the Appalachian Trail.
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:41 PM   #20
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seriously,
did you get a look at that?

who wouldn't want to
get on their (hiking) boots
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:38 PM   #21
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So why are there so many closet gays in the Republican party?



there was a study done -- it was mentioned to me in passing today, and i don't really have the time to dig it up -- where a series of self-described heterosexual men were shown pictures of naked men. as it turned out, those who were the most homophobic were those most aroused by the nude pictures.

so it's something along those lines.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:08 PM   #22
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there was a study done -- it was mentioned to me in passing today, and i don't really have the time to dig it up -- where a series of self-described heterosexual men were shown pictures of naked men. as it turned out, those who were the most homophobic were those most aroused by the nude pictures.

so it's something along those lines.
Ok, that's one theory.

Or maybe, you know, some gay people actually are pretty right wing.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:21 PM   #23
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Or, sometimes what is genuinely (not necessarily rationally) reviled or feared is therefore more arousing.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:28 PM   #24
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Ok, that's one theory.

Or maybe, you know, some gay people actually are pretty right wing.



yes, some gay people are.

but conservative, self-identified gay people tend not to be members of Congress.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:32 PM   #25
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yes, some gay people are.

but conservative, self-identified gay people tend not to be members of Congress.
So presumably you would blame homophobia for the closeted Republican gays that become embroiled in sex scandals?
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:35 PM   #26
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So presumably you would blame homophobia for the closeted Republican gays that become embroiled in sex scandals?


in sweeping, broad sense, yes.

but i also blame the spread of HIV mostly on homophobia as well, so make of that what you will.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #27
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in sweeping, broad sense, yes.

but i also blame the spread of HIV mostly on homophobia as well, so make of that what you will.
Well, that's not particularly scientific; but fair enough, you've acknowledged that it's a sweeping, broad statement.

Isn't it equally valid to claim - and, granted, in a sweeping, broad and unscientific sense once again - that some gay individuals hold right wing political beliefs (perhaps very right wing political beliefs in some cases), and that of that subset of gay people, some are sufficiently motivated to get involved in politics and run for election for the Republican party, in the full knowledge that they have to keep their 'gayness' closeted? In other words, that they're not necessarily in denial about anything, they just make a kind of compromise with their own consciences. (So, for example, a gay politician who held pro-interventionist foreign policy beliefs might fit this thesis).

Isn't that thesis as valid as - and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it's what you seem to be saying - 'it's the homophobic straight society that caused these scandals'?
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:47 PM   #28
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^ Aren't you saying the same thing? Why do they have to "keep their 'gayness' closeted"?
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:00 PM   #29
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^ Aren't you saying the same thing? Why do they have to "keep their 'gayness' closeted"?
I take your point, but I don't think we're arguing precisely the same thing.

For the sake of argument, a gay politician who held strong pro-Zionist opinions - and it's easy to understand why, given homophobia of some Middle Eastern societies - might make a deliberate decision to get involved with the Republican party in order to advance those beliefs, if such an individual made a judgement call that the Republican party were more likely to support Israel than the Democrats. That person could chose to remain in the closet - even make a big deal of being pro-traditional marriage, pro-family values, etc, - for political reasons. Such a person, if he or she existed, and I am not necessarily claiming they do, wouldn't be a closeted, self-hating gay that had internalised homopobia, they'd just be someone making a calculated and pragmatic political decision.

A similar argument could be advanced in respect of a gay politican who had fervent pro free market, anti socialist beliefs.

In other words, these - admittedly hypothetical, but conceivable - cases, don't fit with the theory that these Republican scandals are because some gay men internalise their homophobia by adopting right wing Christian conservative type beliefs.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:32 PM   #30
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I suppose maybe if said man were a childless bachelor with a well-established practice of keeping his private life private (a category enough straight men belong to that it wouldn't necessarily arouse suspicion by itself) and a cynically blase view of gay rights. But that's not the norm in American politics. And you have to take into account that managing to keep such a basic aspect of one's life hidden from public view will probably involve years of lying to and deceiving a whole lot of people, not just anonymous constituents and unlikely-ally colleagues, which is a pretty warping way to live.
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