Should 'Fatties' Get A Room? Even On TV?

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MrsSpringsteen

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^Not my words. I guess all the shows with overweight guys who make out with or are married to hot THIN women are still ok.

WSJ

An article published by Marie Claire that’s critical of overweight actors on television has drawn harsh criticism itself and an apology from its author. The piece, titled “Should ‘Fatties’ Get a Room? (Even on TV?)” by Maura Kelly, focuses on the CBS show “Mike & Molly,” about a couple who meet an Overeaters Anonymous group.

The sitcom has drawn criticism since it premiered earlier this year for its “toxic mulch” of crude humor and jokes aimed at the characters’ waistlines. But Kelly focused less on the show’s quality than whether she was made uncomfortable by the overweight actors. She wrote: “So anyway, yes, I think I’d be grossed out if I had to watch two characters with rolls and rolls of fat kissing each other… because I’d be grossed out if I had to watch them doing anything.”

Kelly ends the article by asking, “What do you guys think? Fat people making out on TV — are you cool with it? Do you think I’m being an insensitive jerk?” So far, the article has drawn 933 comments, the overwhelming majority of them going with insensitive jerk. She has since issued an apology.

Overweight Couples on Television - Do Fat Characters on TV Offend Viewers - Marie Claire

The other day, my editor asked me, "Do you really think people feel uncomfortable when they see overweight people making out on television?"

Because I can be kind of clueless — I'm not much of a TV person — I had no idea what she was talking about, so she steered me to this CNN article, about the CBS sitcom Mike & Molly. As CNN explains, "the show centers around a couple who meet at an Overeaters Anonymous group [and] has drawn complaints for its abundance of fat jokes [as well as] cries from some viewers who aren't comfortable watching intimacy between two plus-sized actors."

My initial response was: Hmm, being overweight is one thing — those people are downright obese! And while I think our country's obsession with physical perfection is unhealthy, I also think it's at least equally crazy, albeit in the other direction, to be implicitly promoting obesity! Yes, anorexia is sick, but at least some slim models are simply naturally skinny. No one who is as fat as Mike and Molly can be healthy. And obesity is costing our country far more in terms of all the related health problems we are paying for, by way of our insurance, than any other health problem, even cancer.

So anyway, yes, I think I'd be grossed out if I had to watch two characters with rolls and rolls of fat kissing each other ... because I'd be grossed out if I had to watch them doing anything. To be brutally honest, even in real life, I find it aesthetically displeasing to watch a very, very fat person simply walk across a room — just like I'd find it distressing if I saw a very drunk person stumbling across a bar or a heroine addict slumping in a chair.

Now, don't go getting the wrong impression: I have a few friends who could be called plump. I'm not some size-ist jerk. And I also know how tough it can be for truly heavy people to psych themselves up for the long process of slimming down. (For instance, the overweight maintenance guy at my gym has talked to me a little bit about how it seems worthless for him to even try working out, because he's been heavy for as long as he can remember.)

But ... I think obesity is something that most people have a ton of control over. It's something they can change, if only they put their minds to it.

(I'm happy to give you some nutrition and fitness suggestions if you need them — but long story short, eat more fresh and unprocessed foods, read labels and avoid foods with any kind of processed sweetener in them whether it's cane sugar or high fructose corn syrup, increase the amount of fiber you're getting, get some kind of exercise for 30 minutes at least five times a week, and do everything you can to stand up more — even while using your computer — and walk more. I admit that there's plenty that makes slimming down tough, but YOU CAN DO IT! Trust me. It will take some time, but you'll also feel so good, physically and emotionally. A nutritionist or personal trainer will help — and if you can't afford one, visit your local YMCA for some advice.)

Then again, I guess these characters are in Overeaters Anonymous. So ... points for trying?

Then again, I tend to think most television shows are a kind of junk food for the mind and body. The boob tube gives us an excuse to turn off both our brains and our bodies and probably does a helluva lot to contribute to the obesity problem, over all. So ... I don't know.

What do you guys think? Fat people making out on TV — are you cool with it? Do you think I'm being an insensitive jerk?

UPDATE: I would really like to apologize for the insensitive things I've said in this post. Believe it or not, I never wanted anyone to feel bullied or ashamed after reading this, and I sorely regret that it upset people so much. A lot of what I said was unnecessary; it wasn't productive, either.




I know a lot of people truly struggle to lose weight— for medical and psychological reasons—and that many people have an incredibly difficult time getting to a healthy size. I feel for those people and I'm truly sorry I added to the unhappiness and pain they feel with my post.




I would like to reiterate that I think it's great to have people of all shapes and healthy sizes represented in magazines (as, it bears mentioning here, they are in Marie Claire) and on TV shows--and that in my post, I was talking about a TV show that features people who are not simply a little overweight, but appear to be morbidly obese. (Morbid obesity is defined as 100% more than their ideal weight.) And for whatever it's worth, I feel just as uncomfortable when I see an anorexic person as I do when I see someone who is morbidly obese, because I assume people suffering from eating disorders on either end of the spectrum are doing damage to their bodies, and that they are unhappy. But perhaps I shouldn’t be so quick to judge based on superficial observations.


To that point (and on a more personal level), a few commenters and one of my friends mentioned that my extreme reaction might have grown out of my own body issues, my history as an anorexic, and my life-long obsession with being thin. As I mentioned in the ongoing dialogue we’ve been carrying on in the comments section, I think that's an accurate insight.


People have accused me of being a bully in my post; I never intended to be that--it's actually the very last thing I want to be, as a writer or a person. But I know that I came off that way, and I really cannot apologize enough to the people whom I upset.
 
I can't believe anyone at Marie Claire thought that was a good idea to publish it. Maybe they wanted people talking about them, but in this case, the bad press will hopefully lead to nothing but people canceling their subscriptions.
 
They don't allow overweight readers either

Yes I can definitely see how anorexia/life long obsession with being thin contributes to her, to put it way too kindly, perspective-but that's no excuse for putting all of that into print.

I don't like many things that I see in other people-but unfortunately we can't exist in a vacuum surrounded by only self selected people that we approve of. Behavior offends me far more than any looks ever could.

I'll buy her a pair of horse blinders
 
I have a few friends who could be called plump. I'm not some size-ist jerk.

I'm not racist/a homophobe/a fat-shamer, you guys! I totally have black/gay/fat friends!
 
It's likely Maura Kelly did not come up with the article title, which is indeed a bit harsh. Not enough idiot copy editors / editors get flack for dumb headlines.

One could discuss whether promoting unhealthy lifestyles on TV is appropriate from a national health standpoint, but from the looks of it the sitcom openly mocks these obese folks who star in it instead of glorifying them.
 
One could discuss whether promoting unhealthy lifestyles on TV is appropriate from a national health standpoint,

Of course if you're a boozing, womanizing douchebag whose show glorifies those aspects of your life, you can be the highest paid actor on television where a lost evening ("The Hangover"-style) at the Plaza Hotel is perfect publicity rather than scandal.

Fat-phobic people who cloak their "ism" as concern for health or healthcare costs are incredibly shallow and rather transparent.
 
No, it's okay if you're thin. Reality TV stars and Charlie Sheen are the epitome of healthy lifestyles!
 
Of course if you're a boozing, womanizing douchebag whose show glorifies those aspects of your life, you can be the highest paid actor on television where a lost evening ("The Hangover"-style) at the Plaza Hotel is perfect publicity rather than scandal.

:up:

Especially when you're being a role model Dad on a kids weekend with your ex and your daughters. Nothing completes American Girl Place more than your Dad trashing his hotel room while possibly naked, while possibly with an "escort", possibly drunk or high.

Sure the headline is harsh, but it's not as if the article makes up for it in any redeeming way.

Can you imagine if anyone wrote such a thing about two minorities? But you can still print such a thing if you say it about overweight people. I know, it is Marie Claire, but still.
 
Yeah, double-standards abound.

Then again you have to realize that the reality / celebrity joke is on the viewer. We like to laugh at other people being humiliated or dumb on television to make us feel better about our own depressing, menial lives as TV watchers.

I'm not sure if it emerged in the game show culture of the 1970s, but Reality TV these last two decades has really affirmed it.

Celebrity culture and reality TV is quite different than traditional escapism into TV land. Everyone likes to get lost in a good book or cop drama. We've developed a real mean streak as a media-consuming society quite recently, though, kind of hearkening back to the circus side shows of days gone by.
 
I have a few friends who could be called plump. I'm not some size-ist jerk.

I'm not racist/a homophobe/a fat-shamer, you guys! I totally have black/gay/fat friends!

Exactly what crossed my mind when he read that sentence.

I get that this author has major body issues, and a history of eating disorders so her view on this is going to be extremely skewed, but who in the editorial offices thought this was a good article to publish?
 
They don't allow overweight readers either

Yes I can definitely see how anorexia/life long obsession with being thin contributes to her, to put it way too kindly, perspective-but that's no excuse for putting all of that into print.

I don't like many things that I see in other people-but unfortunately we can't exist in a vacuum surrounded by only self selected people that we approve of. Behavior offends me far more than any looks ever could.

I'll buy her a pair of horse blinders



I agree Mrs. Springsteen. And I would like to know what "her idea of a tv size" should be.

I am not knocking anyone are naturally thin. It is their genetics. Being healthy is the primary issue. Who's to say that healthy can't be beyond a size six. There are so many factors. Your Dr. is always your best advice.

I wear a size ten/twelve. I have always been athletic. Five foot five, medium frame. Dance, swimming, Martial Arts, walking, hiking has given me excellent muscle tone. For my age. I never eat "fast food." Too spicy. it makes me sick. I perfer organic salad greens and home cooked, unprocessed foods instead.

I am mature enough to not make fun of how others look. Each one of us is beautiful just they way we are.

I don't think it is gross for any couple who love each other to share a kiss.
 
Exactly what crossed my mind when he read that sentence.

Same here. And ditto Liesje, too. We have all sorts of means to avoid watching what you don't like nowadays, so this "I don't want to see that!" argument holds even less water now than it ever did. I didn't much care to watch Bret Michaels making out with a bunch of sleazy bimbo girls when that stupid "Rock Of Love" was on TV, but no outcry over that show. If they're making out and getting intimate and whatnot, so what? She makes it sound like they're some alien species or something. They love and express displays of affection, just like every other person in the world does. Get over it and move on.

As for "promoting" unhealthy lifestyles, well, just as I argue that seeing thin people on TV isn't the sole factor for women turning to anorexia, I don't think seeing overweight people on TV will do the same for people who like to eat too much. Any health problems they may or may not have are their concern to deal with-it's nice to care and offer help, if you genuinely do (and that's debatable with this article), but ultimately they have to make the choice to change (and while most obesity can be controlled, some of it is genetic, too).

Very strange, dumb article.

Angela
 
I wonder why it's okay to write an article slamming entertainment that glorifies overly thin girls, but not an article slamming entertainment that glorifies overly fat girls. Do you guys think you'd be downplaying the health concern angle if we were talking about an article on super thin runway models or magazine covergirls?
 
I am not knocking anyone are naturally thin. It is their genetics.

But it's not always genetics or natural. Many women have to fight very hard against their genetics to stay slim and toned and be healthy. It's like saying "overweight people should just eat less and exercise". It's never that simple or that easy, either way you go. Many people that are thin and fit are not naturally that way.
 
Celebrity culture and reality TV is quite different than traditional escapism into TV land. Everyone likes to get lost in a good book or cop drama. We've developed a real mean streak as a media-consuming society quite recently, though, kind of hearkening back to the circus side shows of days gone by.

That's for damn sure. No wonder we're spawning nasty bullies.

Consider, too, the sharkfest that is celebrity gossip culture, from tabloid magazines to TV shows and harsh blogs. The target audience for this—and the targets of its mean-spiritedness—is predominantly women. Sure, male stars get their share of ridicule, but mainly it’s the Kardashians and their love lives, Heidi Montag and her plastic surgeries, or the ongoing Chernobyl-like meltdown of Lindsay Lohan. That this is happening at precisely the same time that women have more opportunities, power and freedom than ever before is no coincidence, says Simmons. “Young women are a lot more open now about expressing their appetites for sex, food and fun,” Simmons says. “The reason there is so much anxiety and ambivalence toward them is because they violate conventional rules of feminity.” There’s not that much difference between trashing Miley Cyrus for a risqué stage performance, she says, and shaming a girl in your dorm, office or circle of friends for being promiscuous.

FEMALE BULLYING - Flare.com


I wonder why it's okay to write an article slamming entertainment that glorifies overly thin girls, but not an article slamming entertainment that glorifies overly fat girls. Do you guys think you'd be downplaying the health concern angle if we were talking about an article on super thin runway models or magazine covergirls?

It's not ok to glorify unhealthy body images in entertainment.

It's especially not ok is to slam the dignity and humanity of those who struggle with both extremes.

Maura Kelly didn't write a blog post to open a worthy discussion about a serious and complex public health issue and how it should be handled in the world of entertainment.

She used that as an excuse to open a nasty tirade about her offended sense of aesthetics. And if that wasn't enough, she threw in a condescending bit on proper diet and exercise.

Then a forced, half-assed, explain-y "apology".
 
But it's not always genetics or natural. Many women have to fight very hard against their genetics to stay slim and toned and be healthy. It's like saying "overweight people should just eat less and exercise". It's never that simple or that easy, either way you go. Many people that are thin and fit are not naturally that way.


That is true. Especially as we get older.

My point was that I don't view slender women as automatically having an "eating disorder." It is easier for some of us to be slender, when everyone in our families are the same way. Genetics does play a role in this, just llike lifestyle. I understand it is hard to work to be physically fit, something we have to work at everyday. I know it is tough for me. But, I stick with it.
 
I've been trying to be more aware of not making comments about people who appear "too thin" (and let's face it, it's almost always women getting the fat-shaming or "eat a sandwich" comments, isn't it?).

Because it's not any of our effing business, and none of us are The Body Police.
 
I've been trying to be more aware of not making comments about people who appear "too thin" (and let's face it, it's almost always women getting the fat-shaming or "eat a sandwich" comments, isn't it?).

Because it's not any of our effing business, and none of us are The Body Police.


Bravo! :applaud:
 
roseanne-show.jpg


:hmm:
 
I've never seen the show but according to this article (the WSJ) the show is not glorifying the overweight couple, according to this it seems as if it's mocking them. It's not just the girl who is overweight, it's the guy too. That's the reason she doesn't want to see them making out.

I have yet to see a current tv show that "glorifies" overweight people in any way, shape, or form. Maybe there are some, I don't watch every show. Thin people are glorified as the standard, and as if no overweight people exist in the alternate tv universe..unless of course it's a show like Biggest Loser et al. So I see nothing wrong with pointing out that difference.

Good thing Roseanne and her husband didn't make out all that much, not that I can remember.
 
I've never seen the show but according to this article the show is not glorifying the overweight couple, according to this it seems as if it's mocking them. It's not just the girl who is overweight, it's the guy too. That's the reason she doesn't want to see them making out.

It's my understand that she'd never even seen the show before being told to write about it.

You know, as someone said on another forum, it's 2010. It's not like it's all that difficult to find an episode or two to watch, or even parts of it.
 
It's my understand that she'd never even seen the show before being told to write about it.

Apparently that didn't matter. Overweight people + making out (or doing anything else, as she says) =disgust. Easy article :shrug: She just read the CNN article, I guess.

http://theclicker.todayshow.com/_ne...-mike-molly-creator-surprised-by-fatties-post

“Mike & Molly” creator Mark Roberts was taken aback after reading the Marie Claire post that left the Internet abuzz about one blogger’s anti-“fatties” stance.

In an interview with Fancast.com, Roberts reacted to writer Maura Kelly’s claim that she’d be “grossed out” to see the sitcom’s stars kiss (or do anything else for that matter), describing it as “something you would hear one of the really stupid girls say in a high school cafeteria.”

While he might have expected it back in his high school days, Roberts certainly didn’t anticipate such a fat-phobic screed from a grown up. Still, he knows Kelly isn’t the only one who sees size before talent, and that’s the bigger battle.

“The shocking thing is we live in this a society where this was an issue,” Roberts told the Hollywood Reporter. “Jackie Gleason would never get on TV now because he's a large man who drank on TV. We've taken steps backward under the guise of what's healthy. Almost everybody I know struggles with something -- whether it’s their weight or alcohol or temper. To stand in judgment of somebody — especially when you're breaking it down to just the esthetic — it just makes me sad ... wow that makes me sound much more upset than I really am. But I am un-friending that woman on Facebook.”
 
Fat People Exist - A Vote in Favor of More Diverse Bodies on TV - Marie Claire

Yes, Fat People Exist: A Vote in Favor of More Diverse Bodies on TV
October 27, 2010 2:20 PM by Lesley Kinzel

This is the first of a series of counterpoint posts to blogger Maura Kelly's opinion piece. -Ed's Note

There aren’t many people on television who look like me. Odds are good that if you’re built like the majority of people in the US today, there aren’t many people on television who look like you either. Just for the moment, let’s set aside the ubiquitous argument that obesity is a heretofore-unknown fifth flabby horseman of the fatapocalypse. Let’s also postpone the inevitable observation that there are other problems in the world of greater relative importance than what kinds of people we get to see on American television. This is an issue worth discussing, and I’m going to tell you why.

Last month, CBS debuted a new sitcom called Mike & Molly. The show has been promoted as the story of two “normal” people meeting and falling in love. The thing is, Mike and Molly aren’t normal, at least not in the narrow universe that television depicts. Mike and Molly are fat.

Now, Mike & Molly is not a great TV show. In fact I would call it a terrible TV show, but I have this annoying habit of expecting sitcoms to be funny. That said, Mike & Molly is important because it is currently the only series on television featuring characters and actors who look like me, and like people I know and love. Oh, but this is not a matter of “glorifying” obesity. Glorifying obesity would take multiple TV shows depicting fat folks riding unicorns and devouring warm pies whilst counting the bags of money they’ve gained from being fat. Indeed, if simply putting fat people on television was enough to “glorify” obesity, then The Biggest Loser should have done the trick years ago. It hasn’t, because The Biggest Loser is a show built on the humiliation and punishment (self-inflicted or otherwise) of fat people. When we say that putting fat people on television will “glorify” their bodies, what we really mean is that we are uncomfortable giving fat people any attention that is not overtly negative. Because fat people need to be told: don’t be fat. Being fat means you are not entitled to a normal life. Being fat means you are not entitled to love. Being fat means you are not entitled to humanity, much less dignity.

What Mike & Molly does right is portray fat people as sympathetic individuals, as capable of falling in love and being loved by someone else. It’s a sharp contrast to weight-loss reality TV that focuses on the alleged tragedy of fatness, and more than that, Mike & Molly’s depiction is simply true: despite what you’ve heard, every day there are real-life fat people out in the world falling in love and flying to Paris and riding rollercoasters and feeling good. After all, your life does not need to stop just because your body does not look the way you think it should.

Unfortunately, where Mike & Molly fails is in its insistence on making the size of its title characters the most important thing about them, the axis around which their entire lives revolve. Real-life fat people have jobs and friends and hobbies and relationships and families and some of us have whole days that go by where we don’t really think about being fat. Where are those characters? Ideally, putting fat characters on television would not glorify obesity, but rather normalize it. And normalizing it is okay, because fat people exist. We work with you and take the train with you and we see you at the gym and in line at the grocery store, and we’re not always crying about being fat.

Arguing that fat characters should not be seen on television is making the statement that fat people do not have a right to be seen -- or even to exist -- in media or in life. It suggests that fat people should hide themselves away in shame and not burden the public with having to look at them; by extension, it suggests that fat people are less valuable individuals than thin people. This idea harms everyone: it makes fat people feel terrible about themselves, and it makes thin people terrified of becoming one of those disgusting fatties. Everyone’s humanity is lost in the equation.

Over the summer, there was another television series that depicted fat characters in a way that neither glorified nor condemned them: that series was Huge, a show set at a fat camp and featuring a nuanced set of individual stories and experiences, plus a wonderfully diverse cast. ABC Family has since declined to give Huge a second season, ostensibly as a result of insufficient ratings. It’s possible that people just aren’t ready for this kind of diversity yet; after all, there have been lots of underrepresented groups who were once absent from television screens and are now commonly seen. But that change didn’t happen overnight -- it happened because people who believe in showing life and humanity in all its stunning variety fought hard for that visibility. The world we all live in is truly astonishing, not to mention beautiful, in its diversity; our media, television included, should reflect that. No one should be left out. Not even the fatties.

Check out more of what Lesley Kinzel has to say on her blog at Fatshionista.com.
 
Anyone here seen this show?

I do find it interesting that you can have a major-network romantic comedy starring two characters in Overeaters Anonymous (an eating-disorders program for compulsive overeaters, not people who'd 'just like to lose some weight'), whereas I can't imagine a similarly normalizing show about anorexics or bulimics.
 
is this falling into the trap of dichotomous thinking ?


A person that is 50 pounds over recommended weight , is fairly common these days, and not necessarily at risk of body collapse or shut down.
 
Sure, and not everyone who's underweight is anorexic or bulimic...maybe I'm misunderstanding your point? I'm talking about viewers'/others' attitudes towards characters'/individuals' relationships with food and their own body image, not how much the characters/individuals appear to weigh.

ETA: To put it another way--I was surprised to see that there's a sitcom centered on characters depicted as having disordered eating behavior, presenting them as ordinary people the audience can relate to (which, of course, they are). I cannot see this happening with anorexics or bulimics though.
 
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I think a bulimic / anorexic has a health risk more like a morbidly obese person than a fat person that chooses to join a self-help group like over-eaters anonymous.



ETA, something like 40-50 per cent of the country is over weight, what per cent do you think is bulimic? 2% :shrug:

Who would the advertisers be? laxative companies, children's fashions?
 
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