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Old 06-22-2011, 03:53 PM   #1
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Seven In Heaven Way

It's preachy?

Seven In Heaven Street Sign | Atheists Seven In Heaven | New York Atheists | Mediaite




Various atheist groups have banded together, asking the city of New York to remove a sign using a religious reference to honor victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. “Seven in Heaven Way” is a Red Hook, Brooklyn street dedicated to seven local firefighters who lost their lives in the attacks. But Ken Bronstein, president of New York City Atheists, finds the sign insulting to those who don’t believe in God or Heaven and recently told Fox News Radio that “there should be no signage or displays of religious nature in the public domain.” David Silverman, president of American Atheists, agrees, adding that the concept of Heaven is “specifically Christian” and that the victims of the 9/11 attacks were not solely Christians:

"All memorials for fallen heroes should celebrate the diversity of our country and should be secular in nature. These heroes might have been Jews, they might have been atheists, I don’t know, but either way it’s wrong for the city to say they’re in heaven. It’s preachy."

Gothamist reports that Silverman also complains the sign “links Christianity and heroism.”

Mike Schweinsburg, the spokesperson for City Councilmember Sara González gave Gothamist an alternate take on the sign’s name:

"The seven heroes have long been known as the “Seven in Heaven.” That’s something that we didn’t have any hand in, it is the way the community and their families chose to remember them. So if that is their desire then we are happy to continue to remember them in the way that their family and fellow firefighters prefer to call them."

Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, asks how far this separation should extend, noting that cities like Los Angeles and Corpus Christi also carry religions names.

So far, the city has no intention of removing the sign.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:59 PM   #2
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While its true that not everyone killed on 9/11 wasn't Christian, the slogan "Seven in Heaven" has been around since the attacks. It is not unusual to see a car with a sticker of that on its back windshield around here. What's next, atheists complaining about what people put on their cars?

I agree with Councilwoman Gonzalez. That is how the families of those killed prefer to remember them, let it be.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:10 PM   #3
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Ridiculous!!!

"Heaven" is in no way endorsing any particular god or preaching to anyone. If this is what these seven families believed then what is your issue.

When you die you can have "dust" to commemorate your life, and I won't find it preachy.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:11 PM   #4
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Oh for heaven's sakes. Way to capture the hearts and minds of the middle ground, well done, guys. This sort of campaign is elevating the idea of separation of church and state into an obsessional fetish. These people are becoming as anal and plain boring as religious fundies. In general I like to think of us atheists as smarter than the average bear but I'm beginning to wonder if that's just a conceit.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:18 PM   #5
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I'm all for the right to believe whatever you want, but this seriously makes me want to say STFU.

Fox News

Bronstein told Fox News Radio that his organization was especially concerned with the use of the word “heaven.” “We’ve concluded as atheists there is no heaven and there’s no hell,” he said.

“And it’s a totally religious statement. It’s a question of separation of church and state.” He was nonplussed over how his opposition to the street sign might be perceived – especially since the sign is honoring fallen heroes. “It’s irrelevant who it’s for,” Bronstein said. “We think this is a very bad thing,”

David Silverman, president of American Atheists, agreed calling on the city to remove the sign. “It implies that heaven actually exists,” Silverman told Fox News Radio.

Silverman said he would not be surprised if atheists are vilified for their criticism of the street sign – suggesting they were simply being patriotic. “If we’re opposed to this sign, we’re somehow opposed to honoring the heroes,” he said. “The attacks on 9/11 were an attack on America. They were an attack on our Constitution and breaking that Constitution to honor these firefighters is the wrong thing to do.

“The patriotic and right thing to do is to obey our own law and to realize that we are a diverse nation, a melting pot full of different views,” Silverman added. The local and national atheist organizations said they’ve offered alternative names that would still honor the firefighters, but without any religious affiliation.

Bronstein suggested they call the street, “We Remember The Seven – 9/11.” He said that would be “more appropriate.”

But the city has no intention of removing the sign. If that’s the case, Bronstein said he may consider a lawsuit.

Read more: New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
If this is what these seven families believed then what is your issue.
Yes, if this is what they believe and what their families want, who cares?
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Oh for heaven's sakes. Way to capture the hearts and minds of the middle ground, well done, guys. This sort of campaign is elevating the idea of separation of church and state into an obsessional fetish. These people are becoming as anal and plain boring as religious fundies. In general I like to think of us atheists as smarter than the average bear but I'm beginning to wonder if that's just a conceit.
You're beginning to wonder now?

Seriously, a lot of believers distrust atheists for reasons like this one. Like you said, this arguement doesn't help the two sides to tolerate one another.
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:23 PM   #8
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Bronstein told Fox News Radio that his organization was especially concerned with the use of the word “heaven.” “We’ve concluded as atheists there is no heaven and there’s no hell,” he said.
I wonder if athiests ever use the term: "go to hell"?

I sure hope not.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:23 PM   #9
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Go to nondescript place that exists for nondescript reasons

Do they even think or care about the families of those people? A little compassion wouldn't hurt.

No one needs religion in order to have human compassion.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:39 PM   #10
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Part of the benefit of being atheist/agnostic is not having to give a shit about little things like this. He's doing it wrong
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:25 AM   #11
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Oh my god.......how ridiculous!

Ooops sorry - I just said the "G" word....Please don't sue me!!!
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Old 06-23-2011, 04:33 AM   #12
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it is stupid from every direction

wtf, is seven about, a lot more than 7 people died that day, and what is a hero, many people were not doing their job and put themselves at risk and died.

if five fireman died instead of seven, would they have named the street
Five No More Alive Way?
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:23 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by deep View Post

wtf, is seven about, a lot more than 7 people died that day, and what is a hero, many people were not doing their job and put themselves at risk and died.

if five fireman died instead of seven, would they have named the street
Five No More Alive Way?
What?
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:09 AM   #14
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I don't believe in God or heaven, but I don't find the sign offensive or insulting. I'd rather see less us/them situations instead of increasing them. It seems to me, though, that most agnostics/atheists couldn't be bothered about stuff like this. Life is troubling. People take comfort where they can.

It might not comfort me; but I don't see how it hurts me.
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:13 AM   #15
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it is stupid from every direction

wtf, is seven about, a lot more than 7 people died that day, and what is a hero, many people were not doing their job and put themselves at risk and died.

if five fireman died instead of seven, would they have named the street
Five No More Alive Way?
This does actually refer to SEVEN specific people from the neighborhood where the sign was placed.

Engine 202 / Ladder 101
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