Scientology is a creepy and weird cult, says Murdoch on Twitter - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-04-2012, 08:29 PM   #61
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
And then 16th hand accounts in books told of miracles.
Another genuine question: What do the believers (catholics in particular) think of the idea of canonizing modern figures (John Paul II, Mother Teresa) into Sainthood when one of the requirements is the performing of a miracle? Does this not cheapen the belief that actual miracles could have been performed in the past? Or are the two so far removed they have no bearing on one another?
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 11:17 PM   #62
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan1977
Jesus didn't hold up according to the prevailing media of the day either. He was a friend of prostitutes, heretics, the poor, and the outcasts. His followers were a motley ragtag group of fishermen and tax collectors. He was accused of blasphemy against Jewish moral codes and treason against the Roman Empire, and died the humiliating and embarrassing death of a commoner, surrounded by thieves and other petty criminals.


You're right, in a way. Fox News would have hated him, called him a hippie socialist occupy wall streeter.

But this does sidestep the question.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 02:28 AM   #63
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,608
Local Time: 07:42 AM
There were literally hundreds of would be Messiahs at the time, it was all the rage it seems. And for some reason the area around Galilee seemed to be the hotbed region for producing them. 'Radical extremists' is how Fox would gave portrayed them, snake oil salesmen is how most would have seen them, but the Jewish and Roman establishments took them seriously enough to kill loads of them. Jesus' message or abilities might have been unique enough to stand out at the time and pull a far larger crowd than most, with huge parts of the mythology built later on, or he might have been 'just another' Messiah, with the whole mythology built around him much later on. I'm surprised it's so easy to be a son of God and miracle and resurrection believer when there are details to the story that are clearly made up and done so for good reason . e.g being born in Bethlehem and the census and all that. Stuff like that is deliberately fudged for obvious myth building advantages, so of course the miracles must be real!
__________________
Earnie Shavers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 05:11 AM   #64
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 55,019
Local Time: 05:42 PM
^something I've always struggled with. When he walked on water/turned water into wine, are these meant to be metaphors for something or parables or fanciful stories? Do Christians actually believe he did these things? I haven't read the sections of the Bible they come from, so I don't really know, but they're both impossible to do with the click of a finger. Otherwise people would be doing it all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Another genuine question: What do the believers (catholics in particular) think of the idea of canonizing modern figures (John Paul II, Mother Teresa) into Sainthood when one of the requirements is the performing of a miracle? Does this not cheapen the belief that actual miracles could have been performed in the past? Or are the two so far removed they have no bearing on one another?
It's like when Mary MacKillop was canonised here. You can read her second miracle here (Cancer survivor Kathleen Evans speaks of Mary Mackillop miracle) but it seems like a woman with inoperable cancer was given a picture of Mary M and a piece of her clothing, she prayed, and then she got better. It doesn't make sense to me.
__________________
cobl04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 10:28 PM   #65
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
Funny, that's exactly how I'd describe Rupert Murdoch.
On what evidence?
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 11:18 PM   #66
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:42 AM
as for Scientology, here's what i don't get: why can't people leave? like, i get how, say, if certain hollywood stars were to, say, admit to fooling around with male masseurs in hotel rooms during an auditing session and this session were recorded, that the church could use that as blackmail against said celebrity. but there are, like, 40,000 members of the church, right? how do they keep ordinary people in the fold? or prevent them from spilling the beans in a way that Paul Haggis did? only more so? i assume the Church sues everyone for defamation?

it's all so weird to me.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 11:59 PM   #67
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
Local Time: 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
I'm saying that stories about his importance and greatness will be much more limited because everyone has access to the media coverage of him. It's preserved, unable to altered by hand-me -down storytelling.
Are you suggesting that before TV, information was always altered by "hand-me-down- storytelling"?

Its true that the only way to record and pass information back then was through word of mouth or writing it down, but that goes for everything that occured back then, not just things in the Bible.
__________________
Edge425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:01 AM   #68
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
Local Time: 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
^ I haven't read the sections of the Bible they come from, so I don't really know, but they're both impossible to do with the click of a finger. Otherwise people would be doing it all the time.
Well, it wouldn't be a miracle if it wasn't impossible.
__________________
Edge425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:09 AM   #69
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge425

Are you suggesting that before TV, information was always altered by "hand-me-down- storytelling"?

Its true that the only way to record and pass information back then was through word of mouth or writing it down, but that goes for everything that occured back then, not just things in the Bible.


Right. So we take things with a grain of salt, and not literally.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:16 AM   #70
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
Local Time: 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Right. So we take things with a grain of salt, and not literally.
Well actually for a certain group of people, anything in the Bible like above is questioned, and scrutinized to the nth degree, while everything else written back then gets a pass.
__________________
Edge425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:22 AM   #71
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
Local Time: 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers View Post
There were literally hundreds of would be Messiahs at the time, it was all the rage it seems. And for some reason the area around Galilee seemed to be the hotbed region for producing them. 'Radical extremists' is how Fox would gave portrayed them, snake oil salesmen is how most would have seen them, but the Jewish and Roman establishments took them seriously enough to kill loads of them. Jesus' message or abilities might have been unique enough to stand out at the time and pull a far larger crowd than most, with huge parts of the mythology built later on, or he might have been 'just another' Messiah, with the whole mythology built around him much later on. I'm surprised it's so easy to be a son of God and miracle and resurrection believer when there are details to the story that are clearly made up and done so for good reason . e.g being born in Bethlehem and the census and all that. Stuff like that is deliberately fudged for obvious myth building advantages, so of course the miracles must be real!
Wow, were you actually there? In your view, who were the top 10 Messiahs of the time?
__________________
Edge425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 12:24 AM   #72
Babyface
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
Local Time: 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
And then 16th hand accounts in books told of miracles.
Well, The Edge likes and respects the book. He recently read passages from it at his mothers funeral.
__________________
Edge425 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 02:27 AM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Kieran McConville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auto Dafoe
Posts: 9,600
Local Time: 04:42 PM
I don't know if there were literally hundreds or not, but there were a few. Simon Bar-Kokhba a century or so after Jesus was probably the next big one.
__________________
Kieran McConville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 03:37 AM   #74
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge425 View Post
Well, The Edge likes and respects the book. He recently read passages from it at his mothers funeral.
Oh, well that's it then I guess. The bible is real. What should we tackle next, gang?
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 03:43 AM   #75
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge425 View Post
Wow, were you actually there? In your view, who were the top 10 Messiahs of the time?
How is this relevant to anything? Sounds like you at least accept parts of the bible as being true. Were you there for all that?
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com