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Old 08-05-2013, 05:22 PM   #76
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Another great link on Stanford University's website: Quantum Approaches to Consciousness
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:47 PM   #77
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Interesting stuff... I've done reading on string theory and dark matter, but this is newish for me...

Just wanted to say kudos, all for a good thread. Lots of interesting thoughts, information and perspective being shared. Thanks AEON, JT, digitize, and everyone else for some good, meaningful, open-minded discussion!
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:48 PM   #78
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Just wanted to say kudos, all for a good thread. Lots of interesting thoughts, information and perspective being shared. Thanks AEON, JT, digitize, and everyone else for some good, meaningful, open-minded discussion!


Kudos to you as well.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:54 PM   #79
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Just wanted to say kudos, all for a good thread. Lots of interesting thoughts, information and perspective being shared. Thanks AEON, JT, digitize, and everyone else for some good, meaningful, open-minded discussion!


You too, man! Feels a bit energized in here
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:07 PM   #80
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The mind/body problem doesn't seem like such a problem to me. I see no reason to support dualism as a required phenomenon. It would seem to me that consciousness, and thus the 'mind', is more a byproduct of memory than anything intangible .
Since it now seems that quantum phenomena is required to "run" the brain - it seems to open the door the real possibility (meaning highly probable) that our consciousness is more than the sum of the parts of our physical brain.

And when you throw in wacky concepts like Superposition, Entanglement, and the Heisenberg principle - it seems to lend support that our "mind" - if it is indeed comprised of particles - can exist outside our brain. Setting the spiritual implications aside - the Transhumanist movements is predicting the ability to upload our minds into the "cloud" and then download it into a separate body (if you choose to even have a body).

TBBT Sheldon tries to determine when is he going to die - YouTube

Joking aside - Transhumanism fascinates me - and I wrestle with what role my faith will play in the events leading up to and beyond the Singularity.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:09 PM   #81
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You too, man! Feels a bit energized in here
A little off topic - what version of Trivial Pursuit do you play? My dad has Genus II and he kicks my arse with all the Baby Boomer TV show references...
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:18 PM   #82
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My gf bought me the 25th anniversary edition for my bday last year. It's not the genius edition, but I'm afraid nobody would play with me if it were it's hard enough to get them to play as it is
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:22 PM   #83
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Since it now seems that quantum phenomena is required to "run" the brain - it seems to open the door the real possibility (meaning highly probable) that our consciousness is more than the sum of the parts of our physical brain.

And when you throw in wacky concepts like Superposition, Entanglement, and the Heisenberg principle - it seems to lend support that our "mind" - if it is indeed comprised of particles - can exist outside our brain. Setting the spiritual implications aside - the Transhumanist movements is predicting the ability to upload our minds into the "cloud" and then download it into a separate body (if you choose to even have a body).
Even if it turns out the brain is some sort of quantum computer random numbers machine, this has little relation to consciousness. The more we learn about the brain, the more it seems consciousness is just a product of the organ. I think you would be hard pressed to find a reasonable argument for dualism. The reality is, quantum phenomena do little to open the door to that possibility. If anything, they raise questions about free will, but not consciousness
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:35 PM   #84
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the Transhumanist movements is predicting the ability to upload our minds into the "cloud" and then download it into a separate body (if you choose to even have a body).

TBBT Sheldon tries to determine when is he going to die - YouTube

Joking aside - Transhumanism fascinates me - and I wrestle with what role my faith will play in the events leading up to and beyond the Singularity.
Even if it were theoretically possible to map your brain, atom for atom at any given time, then 'rebuild' that map using materials that aren't your own, the new 'entity' wouldn't be any more you than would a genetic clone. The entity would share your memories, emotions, mental state, etc, - it would even fool your friends into believing it was you - but it would be a separate being. You would no longer exists, but the new being would be convinced it was You. It would be picking up where you left off, but with the benefit of the illusion of all your prior experiences. A mind fuck if there ever was one
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:39 PM   #85
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Even if it turns out the brain is some sort of quantum computer random numbers machine, this has little relation to consciousness. The more we learn about the brain, the more it seems consciousness is just a product of the organ. I think you would be hard pressed to find a reasonable argument for dualism. The reality is, quantum phenomena do little to open the door to that possibility. If anything, they raise questions about free will, but not consciousness
So, do you think it is possible for your consciousness to be backed up onto a hard drive (or whatever) some day? If so - wouldn't this be the very definition of dualism (as it relates to mind/body - not necessarily the Gnostic/Platonic version of the term.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:45 PM   #86
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Even if it were theoretically possible to map your brain, atom for atom at any given time, then 'rebuild' that map using materials that aren't your own, the new 'entity' wouldn't be any more you than would a genetic clone.
That's interesting that you say that. That's how many "religious" people feel.

I haven't come to a conclusion yet.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:50 PM   #87
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So, do you think it is possible for your consciousness to be backed up onto a hard drive (or whatever) some day? If so - wouldn't this be the very definition of dualism (as it relates to mind/body - not necessarily the Gnostic/Platonic version of the term.
No, I don't believe it's possible. That's what I meant by it being a different being. The physical state of your brain could theoretically be mapped out atom by atom and rebuilt with organic materials in the exact same state. But You (ie, the person from whom they mapped the state) would not be transported into the new entity; but somewhat paradoxically, the new entity would believe it to be you. And would believe that he had been transported
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:52 PM   #88
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That's interesting that you say that. That's how many "religious" people feel.

I haven't come to a conclusion yet.
I think you're maybe reading it in a way I hadn't intended. The new entity would be a new organism (we're talking about rebuilding atom for atom. creating organic material). The old you would be cease to exist. As if you were replaced by a pod person.

Actually, to be more clear, it could theoretically then be possible to map your physical brain state at any given time, then build, atom for atom, particle for particle, another being from that map, while not destroying the original. Would you then believe your consciousness exists in two separate organisms? Because the state of the new entity's mind would be exactly the same as yours at the time it was mapped. It would have the illusion of every experience you've ever had. It would believe that it had existed as long as you had
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:56 PM   #89
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There's a thought experiment about this that I will find for you
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:05 PM   #90
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There's a thought experiment about this that I will find for you
I look forward to it - because we are probably only a few decades away from having to make this choice...
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