Saudi Woman Beats Up Religious Policeman - U2 Feedback

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Old 05-18-2010, 05:21 PM   #1
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Saudi Woman Beats Up Religious Policeman

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An angry young Saudi Arabian woman has left her mark on a religious policeman who approached her for illegally socializing with an unmarried young man.

According to the Saudi daily Okaz, the woman strongly objected to the policeman's interference and repeatedly punched him so hard that he ended up in the hospital with bruises to his face and body.

The couple, believed to be in their 20s, were strolling through an amusement park in the city of Al-Mubarraz when the policeman asked them to confirm their relationship to one another.

==========================================================
"To see resistance from a woman means a lot," Wajiha Al-Huwaidar, a Saudi women's rights activist, told The Media Line News Agency, The Post reported.

"People are fed up with these religious police, and now they have to pay the price for the humiliation they put people through for years and years," she was quoted as saying. "This is just the beginning and there will be more resistance."

"The media and the Internet have given people a lot of power and the freedom to express their anger," she added. Whatever the religious police do ends up all over the Internet, she said, which gives them "a horrible reputation and gives people power to react."
Niiiiice! Go her!

I'd just like to share this with everyone. It brightened my day in a sense.
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:27 PM   #2
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On the one hand, I have to say that violence isn't the answer.

On the other hand, YOU GO, LADY!
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:32 PM   #3
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And she wasn't even a cougar
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:53 PM   #4
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another race to the bottom with women acting like men because they feel they have to live up to some warped feminist ideal that tells them that the only way to be equal is to imitate the worst behaviors of men rather than embracing their essential, virtuous femininity.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:15 PM   #5
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te-he,
ha ha

we will see how this story ends

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Old 05-18-2010, 07:18 PM   #6
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Gotta admit, I had that thought. We heard that this woman fought back against this guy .... but what happened to her next? What will happen to her?
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:21 PM   #7
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The Kingdom must preserve God's law.

Allowing things like this to happen will only empower the BinLadens of the world.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:21 PM   #8
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I our oil overlords allies.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:44 PM   #9
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te-he,
ha ha

we will see how this story ends



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Old 05-19-2010, 09:53 AM   #10
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I was going to post an Arabic female power ballad from the 80's but I couldn't really think of any off the top of my head. But this cheered me up - in a very bittersweet way, knowing what her outcome will most likely be. I don't know if a domino effect of other Saudi women fighting back against these fuckwits and sacrificing themselves would help the cause, though.
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Old 05-19-2010, 10:13 AM   #11
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Somebody's got to start somewhere, and I admire her courage and willingness to stand up.
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Old 05-19-2010, 12:12 PM   #12
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Somebody's got to start somewhere, and I admire her courage and willingness to stand up.
I do too....but, at the same time. I worry for her safety.
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:30 PM   #13
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The article made it sound like she was beating up the policeman only when she was asked to confirm their relationship. That's probably not the whole story. But if that's true, I can't say I agree with the way she handled the matter. Precisely because the chauvinistic men in power can use this and turn around and say these are the kind of people who need to be punished.

I'd rather go with someone like Hissa Hilal as the right example.

Islamic law is often portrayed negatively because what is implemented in Saudi Arabia sometimes doesn't conform to today's standards of humanitarian rights. I agree some of them are very strict, and some of them may not make sense when applied to today's society. The Islamic laws I know are very protective of female, but sometimes they have been misinterpreted as restricting us of various activities. There are different factions of the religion (with lazy, chauvinistic males in power in my opinion) or cultures that choose to interpret them and twist them such that they restrict and punish women.

A progressive society challenges these interpretations of the laws and make adjustments to fit today's situations. What's good (or bad depending on who you talk to) is that we don't have ONE governing body that determines which interpretations to follow, equivalent to the Vatican. Islam encourages us to use The Koran, the Hadith (narrations of the deeds and sayings of Prophet Muhammad) to guide us in making our interpretation of the laws. We have scholars from renowned foundations and universities who have come up with their interpretations. We can choose whether to follow them or not. Ultimately, our obligation is to God, and to follow His words in the Koran. Which is why the Koran is preserved in the Arabic language, just the way it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad. And people who said that they’ve read the Koran, when they meant reading a translation of it, cannot claim that they’ve read it. But that’s another argument that would take me pages to explain and I’d rather not go into.
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by vjacqb View Post
Islamic law is often portrayed negatively because what is implemented in Saudi Arabia sometimes doesn't conform to today's standards of humanitarian rights. I agree some of them are very strict, and some of them may not make sense when applied to today's society. The Islamic laws I know are very protective of female
Which ones? Because I get the impression that the Islamic laws meant to protect women from such things as rape or sexual harassment put the blame on women when they do experience those things.

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Originally Posted by vjacqb View Post
Which is why the Koran is preserved in the Arabic language, just the way it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad.
I saw a program on National Geographic some time ago that says the Koran is not as preserved as some believe. Some scholars came across a Koran from around the year 600 that had different passages than the Koran of today. Meaning, just as the Bible has changed over the years, so has the Koran. A book was written about that, but the authors had to use pseudonyms and had to go into hiding because radicals were threatening to kill them.

Here's a link to the show:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...-3466/Overview
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by vjacqb View Post
The article made it sound like she was beating up the policeman only when she was asked to confirm their relationship. That's probably not the whole story. But if that's true, I can't say I agree with the way she handled the matter. Precisely because the chauvinistic men in power can use this and turn around and say these are the kind of people who need to be punished.

I'd rather go with someone like Hissa Hilal as the right example.

Islamic law is often portrayed negatively because what is implemented in Saudi Arabia sometimes doesn't conform to today's standards of humanitarian rights. I agree some of them are very strict, and some of them may not make sense when applied to today's society. The Islamic laws I know are very protective of female, but sometimes they have been misinterpreted as restricting us of various activities. There are different factions of the religion (with lazy, chauvinistic males in power in my opinion) or cultures that choose to interpret them and twist them such that they restrict and punish women.

A progressive society challenges these interpretations of the laws and make adjustments to fit today's situations. What's good (or bad depending on who you talk to) is that we don't have ONE governing body that determines which interpretations to follow, equivalent to the Vatican. Islam encourages us to use The Koran, the Hadith (narrations of the deeds and sayings of Prophet Muhammad) to guide us in making our interpretation of the laws. We have scholars from renowned foundations and universities who have come up with their interpretations. We can choose whether to follow them or not. Ultimately, our obligation is to God, and to follow His words in the Koran. Which is why the Koran is preserved in the Arabic language, just the way it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad. And people who said that they’ve read the Koran, when they meant reading a translation of it, cannot claim that they’ve read it. But that’s another argument that would take me pages to explain and I’d rather not go into.


vjacqb

thanks for taking time to write a reply in here.

I am sure we have many more Muslims reading our remarks in here.

It is good to get a point of view from someone closer to the culture,
than just hearing impressions from many of us here in the West.


I did recently learn about Hissa Hilal

perhaps her popularity will lead to some dialogue and moderation

you may be familiar with the expression: "Speaking truth to power"

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The Arab world's version of "American Idol" isn't about singing at all. It's about poetry. Contestants on the Abu Dhabi TV show "Million's Poet" recite verse in their quest for a top prize of over $1 million. In a part of the world where poets are as famous as rock stars, the show celebrates odes to family, soccer and life in the desert.

Hissa Hilal appears on Arabian television show despite inevitable scorn.But at this week's finale of "Million's Poet" was an amazing sight: A woman was one of five finalists, reciting her controversial poetry in a full niqab. Hissa Hilal, is a 43-year-old mother of four from Saudi Arabia who watches the world through slits in her niqab. She used the stage – and her poetry – to send a message, slamming conservative Muslim clerics who she says unfairly separate men and women, spread extremism and give Islam a bad name.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by vjacqb View Post
The article made it sound like she was beating up the policeman only when she was asked to confirm their relationship. That's probably not the whole story. But if that's true, I can't say I agree with the way she handled the matter.
Sometimes, you can only take so much, then you have to do something.

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The Islamic laws I know are very protective of female,
I only need "protection" if I'm inferior to the "protector."
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:14 PM   #17
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are you inferior to the police?
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:33 PM   #18
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And people who said that they’ve read the Koran, when they meant reading a translation of it, cannot claim that they’ve read it. But that’s another argument that would take me pages to explain and I’d rather not go into.
The translation argument is interesting, given how many Muslims understand classical arabic.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:02 PM   #19
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are you inferior to the police?
No.

But to make your point, you'll have to actually have one, deep.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:09 PM   #20
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Sorry, this is gonna be one long post.... I hope I don't come across as preaching or forcing my belief on you. I just believe in sharing information because the unknown is what people fear the most.

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Which ones? Because I get the impression that the Islamic laws meant to protect women from such things as rape or sexual harassment put the blame on women when they do experience those things.
Really? Where do you hear that? Is that for every case that you know, or is it just the ones that the media care enough to broadcast? The media also reports about the abundance of sexual abuse by Catholic priests, but I would be naive to think that the Bible or the Vatican condones such behavior, or that all priests are pedophiles.

Many of the rules from the Koran are for things such as prayers obligations and fasting where men have very limited excuse to abandon them whereas for women, the rules are more forgiving due to natural circumstances like pregnancy, breastfeeding, menstruation. It is forbidden for a husband to treat his wife badly, or to stop providing for her, or to take back anything that he has given her from the beginning of the marriage (dower?). If this happens, the woman can choose to leave the marriage (I'm simplifying things a bit here).

The rule and need for modesty is also something that is mentioned in the Koran, and it applies to both men and women. This is an area where the interpretation is open, and often controversial. Men and women are required to dress modestly. Dressing provocatively can invoke sexual desires and therefore may put the women/men at risk in dangerous situations. But really, how often do we hear about skimpy-clothed men getting jumped by random women? Across different cultures, the interpretation of dressing modestly varies, just like in every company, the definition of 'Business Casual' varies. To me, a tank top and short shorts are provocative in public. That may not be to you. In some culture, women have to cover everything, including their heads and faces. Is that what's explicitly stated in the Koran? No. I've been fortunate to grow up in a community where head coverings are not obligatory, but it is a choice for women. Some married members of my family wear them, some don't. I don't.

Do I think if the woman dressed provocatively in public she deserved to be raped? No one deserves to be raped, but I do think that she knew and chose to take the higher risk of going out with skimpy clothes. It's just common sense. Do I judge women who dress provocatively according to my standards? I'm learning not to because I'm learning every culture has a different standard. And in Islam, if proven that the man raped the woman, he most certainly would not be able to get away with it, regardless of what he/she said and what she wore. And I'm not saying all women who were raped or sexually harassed must have dressed provocatively. Sometimes you're just dealing with rapists and perverts. Is there ever an excuse for them? The Koran states you should receive punishment for even spreading slander about women (whether it's a man or woman who did it), let alone acts of physical violence.

Whoever accuses a woman of adultery, they have to produce at least four witnesses to support the allegation and can testify that they have witnessed the adultery has been committed. I'm not just talking about if someone sees them in public together. The burden is on the accuser to prove that the adultery has been committed. If they fail to do so, they are the ones who get the punishment instead, for they just committed slander. And if they are able to prove adultery, it's not just the adulteress who's punished, the adulterer gets the same thing.

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I saw a program on National Geographic some time ago that the Koran is not as preserved as some believe. Some scholars came across a Koran from around the year 600 that had different passages than the Koran of today. Meaning, just as the Bible has changed over the years, so has the Koran. A book was written about that, but the authors had to use pseudonyms and had to go into hiding because radicals were threatening to kill them.
There are always going to be people who challenge the preservation of the Koran. I have to watch the program you mentioned and find out what version they're talking about. How do they know whether that's the true version versus what we've tried to preserve so far? And we're not only made up of radicals. We have scholars too, the ones who are continuing to uncover more knowledge, interpret and adjust the teachings accordingly. But we also have to guard ourselves against false allegations and slander or ridicules of our prophets. This is one of the things mentioned in the Koran that would signal dangerous times and break the unity and faith of Muslims. This is why we defend our Sacred Text and prophets fiercely. Does it call for the beheading of every bearer of false news? Goodness, no. But we have to do our damnedest for the lies not to spread, or educate people why the allegations are false.

Are all Muslims knowledgeable of the Arabic language enough to know whether they possess a real one vs an altered version? Most probably, no. I admit I'm not one of them either yet. But I'm learning, because I would like to be able to know. And yes, I am learning through translations. If I find a verse where the translation doesn't quite fit, I ask my friends. Sometimes they explain to me that some of the Arabic words don't have the proper translation into English or my language. Another reason why we've kept it in the original language.

I'm not saying I know everything about The Koran or the different cultures of Muslim countries. What each person knows is only a drop of water in the vast ocean. But the teachings I've learned and the values that I believe in are in line with the common sense morals and values, regardless of where I've lived. And nothing teaches that it's okay to degrade women, to hurt a child, or to kill anyone except in extreme circumstances such as war and situations where they oppress you and forbid you to practice your religion.
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