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Old 04-19-2010, 12:25 PM   #46
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As I understand it, his drilling idea isn't all that dissimilar from the one YOUR REPUBLICAN FRIENDS advocated. Why do you think the left was unhappy with him when they heard that plan?

Jesus Christ, woman, try thinking for yourself for a change.

Angela
The oil drilling thing is such a red herring. Oil companies are not nimble, move on a moments' notice, reactionary operations. They plan, they forecast, they are logistical juggernauts. Even if Obama had said drill anywhere you like in the U.S. and offshore now, it would still take them 5-10 years to arrange the equipment and infrastructure for the drilling.

This is Obama playing chess again. He threw the "Drill, Baby, Drill" right a bone knowing full well that it is not an immediate thing, nor for that matter etched in stone. An environmental lawsuit could hold-up any new drilling plans the oil companies make based on the new energy policy. He is smart in giving a good, simple headline, "Obama Expands Oil Drilling" which the knuckle-draggers won't bother to read any deeper. But really, the nuances of it mean pretty much the status quo for oil drilling.

Palin and her followers don't do nuance. So, if you can kick their legs out from under them in the headlines, they won't take the time to dig deeper. They'll just move on to the next talking point.
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:39 PM   #47
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Thank you for clarifying that more, kramwest1 . Excellent point.

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That's not exactly embracing your femininity dear
Well, hey, then I guess I'm living up to their stereotype, eh ?

Angela
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:47 PM   #48
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Thank you for clarifying that more, kramwest1 . Excellent point.
Thanks.

It's Mark BTW. I used to "sign" my posts but got teased enough that I stopped.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:18 AM   #49
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She really knows how to keep herself in the news..it IS incredibly hypocritical

ABC News

Sarah Palin's 'Christian Nation' Remarks Spark Debate

Advocates of Church-State Separation Say Palin Is Distorting Founders' Intent
By TEDDY DAVIS and MATT LOFFMAN

WASHINGTON, April 20, 2010

Is America a Christian nation?

Sarah Palin said on Friday that it's "mind-boggling" to suggest otherwise.

But two groups dedicated to the separation of church and state are now speaking out against her, arguing that she is misreading the founders' intent.

"It's incredibly hypocritical that Sarah Palin, who disapproves of government involvement in just about anything, now suddenly wants the government to help people be religious," Barry Lynn, the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, told ABC News.

"It is wildly inconsistent with her views on limited government to get the government involved in matters of faith."

Lynn was reacting to remarks Palin gave last Friday in Louisville, Ky., one day after a federal judge in Wisconsin ruled that the National Day of Prayer, created in 1952 by Congress, violated the First Amendment.

"We hear of a judge's ruling that our National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional," said Palin. "I think we'll be challenging that one."

"God truly has shed his grace on thee -- on this country," Palin told the Women of Joy conference. "He's blessed us, and we better not blow it."

And Palin took aim at Obama, repeating an often cited but incorrect claim that Obama said he believed that the U.S was no longer a Christian nation during a 2006 speech.

"And then, hearing any leader declare that America isn't a Christian nation and poking an ally like Israel in the eye, it's mind-boggling to see some of our nation's actions recently, but politics truly is a topic for another day."

A written text of the speech posted at BarrackObama.com of the June 2006 keynote address at the Call to Renewal Conference indicated that Obama had written that (emphasis added) "We are no longer just a Christian nation, but we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation..."

Palin, who belongs to the Assembly of God church, used her speech to reject the notion that God and state should be kept separate.

"Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our founding fathers, they were believers," said Palin. "And George Washington, he saw faith in God as basic to life."

"In Washington's farewell address, he wrote 'Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, religion, faith, morality are indispensible supports,'" she continued. "So Women of Joy, remember that, and remember that even today this nation needs you."

Palin Tells 'Mom of Faith Movement' Not to Listen to Critics

A spokesman for the Secular Coalition for America told ABC News that Palin is misconstruing the founders' intent on matters of church and state.

"While the founders' views on religion varied from person to person, there is no doubt that they believed strongly that religion had no place in government," said Paul Fidalgo, the communications manager for the Secular Coalition for America. "John Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli which stated in no uncertain terms that 'the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.'

"Our Constitution established a secular government and has no mention of Jesus, Christianity, or a god of any kind, despite the false message spread by figures such as Sarah Palin who claim that America was founded as a Christian nation," Fidalgo continued.

Palin told the women in attendance, whom she referred to as a "mom of faith movement," that they should not listen to critics who would make them feel that their movement is "all a low-cost brand of ignorance."

"Really, it's just the opposite," said Palin. "And I think the more we're involved, the more we're going to rock this world."
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:06 AM   #50
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You know what would be a great tv show to put on the basic networks (ABC/FOX/NBC/CBS).....is a weekly history lesson type show. I know that's why we have the history channel, or discovery, or PBS.....but everyone thinks those shows/networks are biased (as if the big 4 are not).

We have these documents written clear as day that states what this country was founded on. How there is no mention of Jesus/Allah or whomever in regards to law and govenment, yet we're told it's there.

We're told our founding fathers were christians, and the proof is because they mention the word or belife of a God. I thought most of our founding fathers were Pagans or just Dietists and left England and the persecution they faced.

But back to the main point, it would really be nice to just have a show that constantly ran which showed the facts. Instead of getting this information from a fucking moron like Sarah Palin.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:11 AM   #51
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The problem is the members of the voting public who believe she is stating facts-or just want to believe that she is. That's the real danger.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:42 AM   #52
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You know what would be a great tv show to put on the basic networks (ABC/FOX/NBC/CBS).....is a weekly history lesson type show.

I thought most of our founding fathers were Pagans ....
Perhaps your idea for the weekly tv history lesson is a good one.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:04 AM   #53
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Ok, Pagan was not the word i was looking for, but tried to correct with Diests.

But you know what, it doesn't fucking matter what they were as they understood the government didn't need to be religious or lean towards one denomination/God.

I'm sure there were some catholics, Church of England, and potentially Lutherns as well. But i'm positive there were some that didn't believe in a xtian god and maybe didn't believe in one at all.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:31 PM   #54
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Ok, Pagan was not the word i was looking for, but tried to correct with Diests.

But you know what, it doesn't fucking matter what they were as they understood the government didn't need to be religious or lean towards one denomination/God.

I'm sure there were some catholics, Church of England, and potentially Lutherns as well. But i'm positive there were some that didn't believe in a xtian god and maybe didn't believe in one at all.
I think the most telling line is from the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
I believe they understood that it was up to the individual to decide who their Creator was. I think there is a HUGE difference in the document between Creator and God.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:34 PM   #55
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Perhaps your idea for the weekly tv history lesson is a good one.
Bring back Schoolhouse Rocks!!!

YouTube - Schoolhouse Rock - The Preamble
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:49 PM   #56
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I pretty much believe that everyone but the Tea Party crowd has gotten it...

She's no longer relevant, funny, but not relevant.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:57 PM   #57
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Hockey moms, we're hotter and smarter moms, embracing femininity moms, hands that rock the cradles rule the world moms, moms of faith. It's tough to keep up.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:52 PM   #58
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Thanks, Mark, for the clarification .

I love that idea, BEAL. I think we could desperately use something like that on TV. I just fear that ratings would become a problem-I sadly can't see something like that getting that big of ratings, so the networks would probably cancel it after a while.

Yeah, uh, Sarah, dear, do you recall why people left Europe and formed this country? It had something to do with...say it with me now: Religious. Persecution.

(Course, I'll grant that the founding fathers and other people who came here didn't always abide by the very laws they created, but still...)

Not to mention, when are people going to realize separation of church and state protects the religious, too? If we had a Muslim president in power, Sarah'd be right up there complaining and saying that they shouldn't be enforcing their religious views on the rest of the country!

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The problem is the members of the voting public who believe she is stating facts-or just want to believe that she is. That's the real danger.
God, yes. I'm not sure sometimes who I find more irritating when I see/hear clips of Sarah speaking-her, or the people in the crowd cheering her enthusiastically, thinking she's said something profound or clever or even remotely intelligent.

Angela
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:12 PM   #59
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God, yes. I'm not sure sometimes who I find more irritating when I see/hear clips of Sarah speaking-her, or the people in the crowd cheering her enthusiastically, thinking she's said something profound or clever or even remotely intelligent.
It is probably quite common to feel this way on both sides of the fence. When Chris Matthews said he was about to "wet his pants" when Obama spoke, I'm sure more than a few conservatives gagged.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:15 PM   #60
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I think the most telling line is from the Declaration of Independence:


Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


I believe they understood that it was up to the individual to decide who their Creator was. I think there is a HUGE difference in the document between Creator and God.
I could be wrong, but I believe Jeffferson's first version did not include that part, endowed by their Creator

I think someone else added it, regardless, I can see why.

I believe with the Monarchy, all rights were believe to be granted by the King,
so if they were exercising and claiming rights, these rights needed to come from some place other than the King
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