Same-Sex Parenting - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-05-2013, 02:05 PM   #61
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
but you're adding another element, which is a second mother or father, who is a fully unique and independent person and may be as complimentary a parent as a man and a woman might be.
I would have to concede this is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i think you're putting too much emphasis on the visual presentation of a family, like you said it startles you when you see men holding hands at DisneyLand. with all due respect, you're the one with the problem, aren't you?
You may very well be right, Irvine. I do tend to put quite a bit of emphasis on the visual, the picture of things (which is why I like South Orange County) - and this may be the source of my problem(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
but do you really wish these children hadn't been born? or that they had stayed in foster care rather than be adopted by SS parents?
I am still glad they are born and maybe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
and just as i feel some alienation being gay, there are also tremendous advantages to being gay. unique perspectives, interesting and unusual people, and i'd argue the ability to identify and emphasize with other minorities because you understand difference (and i believe studies show that the children of LG parents are more open to difference and less likely to be bullies). there may be advantages to having 2 mothers and 2 fathers.
Yes, this may all be true. I do wish it was more like that anyway (non-bullying, empathy, understanding...)
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #62
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
and perhaps offering myriad other advantages.

should these children not exist? would you encourage an abortion to a life with a SS couple? would you rather them in foster care?
Exist = yes
Abort = no
Foster Care = depends
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 02:55 PM   #63
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 05:31 PM
When you say, "depends" when it comes to foster care, what makes you not want to give a kid to a same-sex couple? What is your criteria?
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #64
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
When you say, "depends" when it comes to foster care, what makes you not want to give a kid to a same-sex couple? What is your criteria?
There are really too many possible scenarios for me to give a definite answer.
__________________
AEON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 03:14 PM   #65
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 03:31 PM
I take issue with this notion that gay couples are "willfully denying" a child a mother or father. What they are doing is giving a child a loving home. A child that might otherwise stay in the foster care system (or much worse), with little to no stability in their lives and no role models at all. It troubles me, Aeon, that you focus on what a gay couple would deny a child in that situation than what they would offer.

You strike me as a pretty compassionate person, so there's a strange discord when you use language in reference to gay couples looking to be parents that paints them as somehow unconcerned with child welfare, or as willful participants in doing harm (by omission, in this case) towards kids.

Surely you can recognize that even IF gay parents are somehow less than optimal, loving parents - period - are far better than no parents. Heterosexuality, in itself, does not impart some magical powers to parents that will automatically benefit their kids. It's the quality of the act of parenting that is of most benefit to a child's well being, not the gender of the parents themselves.
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 03:39 PM   #66
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I take issue with this notion that gay couples are "willfully denying" a child a mother or father. What they are doing is giving a child a loving home. A child that might otherwise stay in the foster care system (or much worse), with little to no stability in their lives and no role models at all. It troubles me, Aeon, that you focus on what a gay couple would deny a child in that situation than what they would offer.
Perhaps we need to separate the foster home vs. artificial insemination situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
You strike me as a pretty compassionate person, so there's a strange discord when you use language in reference to gay couples looking to be parents that paints them as somehow unconcerned with child welfare, or as willful participants in doing harm (by omission, in this case) towards kids.
If we talking about artificial insemination - then the motivation to be a parent is not about saving a child from the streets, it is about bringing a child into the world that would not have otherwise existed and purposely denying that child a mother or father. It seems such a couple is placing their own desires to be parents above the needs of the child. That is what it looks like from my perspective.

Now, if we are talking about adoption - and there is some shortage of caring, loving heterosexual couples - then I would tend to admit that homosexual parenting may be better than none. However, my time in the Catholic shelter for boys - with zero parenting - was an absolute blast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Surely you can recognize that even IF gay parents are somehow less than optimal, loving parents - period - are far better than no parents. Heterosexuality, in itself, does not impart some magical powers to parents that will automatically benefit their kids. It's the quality of the act of parenting that is of most benefit to a child's well being, not the gender of the parents themselves.
There is so much involved with parenting - and gender modeling is a very important aspect of it.
__________________
AEON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #67
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,886
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
If we talking about artificial insemination - then the motivation to be a parent is not about saving a child from the streets, it is about bringing a child into the world that would not have otherwise existed and purposely denying that child a mother or father. It seems such a couple is placing their own desires to be parents above the needs of the child. That is what it looks like from my perspective.
Based on what?
__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:13 PM   #68
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
Now, if we are talking about adoption - and there is some shortage of caring, loving heterosexual couples - then I would tend to admit that homosexual parenting may be better than none.
Honestly, it boggles my mind that you still need to qualify it with "may be" better than none in any situation, let alone an adoption situation with a shortage of heterosexual couples. How can you rationally believe that giving a kid to a loving homosexual couple might be worse than leaving that child parentless?

It's hard not to jump to unflattering conclusions when presented with that kind of statement.
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:21 PM   #69
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
There is so much involved with parenting - and gender modeling is a very important aspect of it.


Please explain this.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #70
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
If homosexuals had a choice, they wouldn't be gay; they'd be straight.
Just curious, what makes you say this?

Because if I had a choice, I wouldn't change a single bit. I'm comfortable with who I am. I am happy this way. Why would I want to change to something some people deem 'normal'?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #71
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,773
Local Time: 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
Perhaps we need to separate the foster home vs. artificial insemination situations.

If we talking about artificial insemination - then the motivation to be a parent is not about saving a child from the streets, it is about bringing a child into the world that would not have otherwise existed and purposely denying that child a mother or father. It seems such a couple is placing their own desires to be parents above the needs of the child. That is what it looks like from my perspective.

Now, if we are talking about adoption - and there is some shortage of caring, loving heterosexual couples - then I would tend to admit that homosexual parenting may be better than none. However, my time in the Catholic shelter for boys - with zero parenting - was an absolute blast.

There is so much involved with parenting - and gender modeling is a very important aspect of it.
Have you read my first post in this thread? It was in response to your post in the other thread about the whole artificial insemination issue.

For you that means denying a child a mother or a father.

For me that means giving the child an extra mother or father.

That's where the big difference comes from. In a lot of Same sex couples, that get a child through artificial insemination, the biological mother/father is still in the picture. It's someone they know, a friend of the family or someone otherwise nearby. So the second role model is still very much there. Nobody is denying the child that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 05:47 PM   #72
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 04:31 PM
This is a topic that's starting to become very real and lived in for me as I know more and more gay parents, and begin pondering becoming one myself. It's something I take very, very seriously, and I spend a lot of time thinking about it.

I'll try to find time to post more about it this weekend.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 06:02 PM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galeongirl View Post

Just curious, what makes you say this?

Because if I had a choice, I wouldn't change a single bit. I'm comfortable with who I am. I am happy this way. Why would I want to change to something some people deem 'normal'?
I've heard and read about many gay people saying this. If they had to choose between being accepted by society or being discriminated or even hated, they'd go with the former. Fortunately, it is more easier these days to be gay than ever before.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #74
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
This is a topic that's starting to become very real and lived in for me as I know more and more gay parents, and begin pondering becoming one myself. It's something I take very, very seriously, and I spend a lot of time thinking about it.

I'll try to find time to post more about it this weekend.
Thank you, Irvine. I look forward to reading more about this.

As for me - I've become more involved in this thread than I really want to be. I've ended up too focused on an issue that I'm not all that clear on. I'm also concerned that if I keep defending it - I will harden my heart.

Please forgive me if I take a breather from this subject and pray/meditate/ponder it further. I do not see these discussions as win/lose debates - but about sharing each other's viewpoints. However, I fear that this if I'm not careful - I will hurt more than help, and I certainly don't want to do that. Please try not to picture me as the man with a bullhorn outside of the stadium - instead, please view me as one of you at a pub, sitting around a table, drinking a pint, talking about life as Achtung Baby plays in the background.
__________________
AEON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 07:00 PM   #75
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEON View Post
Please try not to picture me as the man with a bullhorn outside of the stadium - instead, please view me as one of you at a pub, sitting around a table, drinking a pint, talking about life as Achtung Baby plays in the background.
__________________

__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com