Roadmap to HELL - One man caught on a barbed wire fence .... - Page 39 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-29-2012, 09:10 PM   #571
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 06:06 AM
Very embarrassing list of countries that voted no - with Canada and the US leading the pack. I'm not sure if the others have 20 million people in the aggregate.

Our Prime Minister is a total failure on this issue, we may as well have a Republican in the office when it comes to Middle Eastern policy.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:54 PM   #572
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,270
Local Time: 05:06 AM
That IS depressing. Really, U.S.? Come on now. Shouldn't be surprising, though, I guess.
__________________

__________________
Moonlit_Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 12:04 PM   #573
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 03:06 AM
US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements - World News
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 04:13 PM   #574
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 06:06 AM
I guess Israel wants a one state solution?
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:20 AM   #575
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:06 AM
So Abbas went to the UN to flex his muscles and save his own ass.....big deal.
This vote means absolutely nothing - just that there's a new virtual country called Palestine, nothing has changed and nothing WILL change until our PM is out of office and a new government can be elected that will restart the peace process.

Don't get me wrong - I WANT a two-state solution - nothing would make me happier than having the Palestinians rule themselves and take care of their own needs, however this cannot happen unillaterally and at the expense of Israel's security.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 02:40 AM   #576
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:06 AM
Hamas leader unbending, but seeks Palestinian unity - CNN.com

These are the people who are ruling Gaza.
These are the people who are the real obstacles to peace in the Middle East.
These are the people who are opressing the Palestinians and forcing them to live in squallor(sp?) and poverty.
These are the people who would rather spend millions of dollars on weapons rather than on clean water for the population.
These are the people who live two hours away from my house.
These are the people who have sworn to kill me and my family.

And finally:
These are the people who dress their children like this:




Take a good look world...........Now tell me again why we have no right to defend ourselves against these people.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 06:08 AM   #577
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 05:06 AM
Whether or not you have the right to defend yourself has never been the question.
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 09:00 AM   #578
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Whether or not you have the right to defend yourself has never been the question.
Hello Diemen,

Well, I know that every time Israel responded to the endless rocket attacks on our towns curteousy of the Hamas, we have always been seen as the bad guys going after the poor, helpless Palestinians. We're always seen as the aggressor and no one in the world (with the exception of a few brave and wonderful countries who know the truth and stand by us...) understands that our hand is always forced time and time again.
So yes, sometimes there has been a question of our right to defend ourselves.

This region, and the world in general, would be a much better place if there were no more terrorist organizations and if we could achieve real peace with the real Palestinian leadership (although I don't quite know who that is now.....).

I only know that Hamas (and the other Jihadiists) needs to be routed out of Gaza and destroyed and I'm positive that nobody will shed a tear when that happens.
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 10:19 AM   #579
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 06:06 AM
I don't disagree with your post.

But I find it curious that you never mention the settlements and blatant and illegal land and water theft by Israel. Would the region not also be better off if these were dismantled?
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #580
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I don't disagree with your post.

But I find it curious that you never mention the settlements and blatant and illegal land and water theft by Israel. Would the region not also be better off if these were dismantled?
Hello Anitram,

Firstly....thank you.

Secondly, I recommend that you take 6 minutes to watch this video narrated by our deputy foreign minister who can explain the West Bank and settlement issue better than I can.

Israel Palestinian Conflict: The Truth About the West Bank - YouTube
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #581
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Pearl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,653
Local Time: 07:06 AM
I'm sorry, AchtungBono, but I would much rather watch or read an op-ed that justifies Israel's illegal settlements that is done from a less biased point of view. Of course the Israeli Foreign Minister is going to defend the West Bank settlements, he's part of the government that encourages it.
__________________
Pearl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 11:36 AM   #582
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I'm sorry, AchtungBono, but I would much rather watch or read an op-ed that justifies Israel's illegal settlements that is done from a less biased point of view. Of course the Israeli Foreign Minister is going to defend the West Bank settlements, he's part of the government that encourages it.
Hello Pearl,

Fair enough.....here you are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...li_settlements

And....

Israelis, Palestinians Both Feel Victimized - YouTube
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 01:51 PM   #583
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 06:06 AM
How is that helpful? Linking to a wikipedia page that tells us that the international community (which by the way includes your staunchest ally, the US) believes that the settlements are illegal but Israel thinks that they are not. Shocking.

It is plainly obvious to anybody looking from the outside in that there cannot be peace there. You don't even think that building those settlements is illegal - so long as you continue to hold this view, there WILL BE NO PEACE. You can blame Hamas and terrorist organizations all you want, but without recognition that Israel is 100% in the wrong with respect to settlements, you can continue to live with terror for the rest of your and your children's lives. It is an absolutely insane proposition that you are choosing.

And then the only thing that you'll get will be a one-state solution where the Arab/Palestinian population will outnumber you, at first by a little and then will completely overwhelm you.

This is what you are choosing by being obstinate on the settlements question. Frankly, it's a large part of the reason why I think the west should completely wash their hands of Israel/Palestine and move on. You guys down there are not willing to be reasonable and compromise and yes that is BOTH of you, so why should we continue to be held hostage to your petty regional squabble?

Unbelievable, really.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 02:20 PM   #584
Refugee
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tel-Aviv, Israel
Posts: 1,300
Local Time: 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
How is that helpful? Linking to a wikipedia page that tells us that the international community (which by the way includes your staunchest ally, the US) believes that the settlements are illegal but Israel thinks that they are not. Shocking.
Well Anitram, since I come off as being biased, I linked to that page because it wasn't written by anyone on the Israeli side and it could give an even perspective - is that still not good? What would you be willing to read or listen to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
It is plainly obvious to anybody looking from the outside in that there cannot be peace there. You don't even think that building those settlements is illegal - so long as you continue to hold this view, there WILL BE NO PEACE. You can blame Hamas and terrorist organizations all you want, but without recognition that Israel is 100% in the wrong with respect to settlements, you can continue to live with terror for the rest of your and your children's lives. It is an absolutely insane proposition that you are choosing.
I must respectfully disagree with you here. There will never be peace for one simple reason - the current Palestinian leadership does not want to sit down with us and they insist on making unilateral moves such as the silly vote in the U.N creating a virtual state (which is in clear violation of the Oslo accords which they co-signed).

Anitram, I mean no disrespect to you but you cannot presume to know what it's like for us to be surrounded by enemies who are hell-bent on our destruction. It's the same as having Hamas ruling Canada and Al-Quaida ruling Mexico. We just cannot just pack up and leave the West Bank and the settlements without reaching an agreement with whoever is supposed to take charge of those areas after that. We already made that mistake before when we uprooted thousands of citizens and withdrew unilaterally from the Gaza strip in 2005 - bringing the Hamas missiles closer to our cities. We will NOT be making that mistake again. Israel has shown that it is willing to make painful decisions but we will not put our necks in the noose, which is what would happen if we gave up the West Bank without an agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
And then the only thing that you'll get will be a one-state solution where the Arab/Palestinian population will outnumber you, at first by a little and then will completely overwhelm you.

This is what you are choosing by being obstinate on the settlements question. Frankly, it's a large part of the reason why I think the west should completely wash their hands of Israel/Palestine and move on. You guys down there are not willing to be reasonable and compromise and yes that is BOTH of you, so why should we continue to be held hostage to your petty regional squabble?

Unbelievable, really.
Actually Anitram that is not entirely true that we're not willing to be reasonable and compromise, Since the Oslo accords were signed in 1993, Israel has relinquished control of a very large part of the West Bank and in 2000 our then prime minister Ehud Barak made Yassar Arafat an offer that we thought he couldn't refuse - to give back 93% of the territory and to just hold on to a small percentage which would act as a buffer between the West Bank and our central cities. But Arafat said no.....so who exactly was unreasonable here? And if you look back and research the peace process, you'll see that it has been Israel who has made most (if not all) of the concessions with the Palestinians giving nothing in return.

So you tell me, what can I say to you to help you understand our point of view?
__________________
AchtungBono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 04:19 PM   #585
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AchtungBono View Post
Well Anitram, since I come off as being biased, I linked to that page because it wasn't written by anyone on the Israeli side and it could give an even perspective - is that still not good? What would you be willing to read or listen to?
I think what she was referring to was the fact that you apparently didn't notice that the wikipedia article you linked to says that pretty much the entire international community thinks Israel is wrong to continue building settlements.

Quote:
I must respectfully disagree with you here. There will never be peace for one simple reason - the current Palestinian leadership does not want to sit down with us and they insist on making unilateral moves such as the silly vote in the U.N creating a virtual state (which is in clear violation of the Oslo accords which they co-signed).
Question: How does continuing to build settlements encourage the Palestinians to take Israel's stated wishes for peace seriously?
__________________

__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who to "Liberate" Next? melon Free Your Mind Archive 95 05-01-2003 04:55 PM
Why I Would Follow Bono Into Hell...... U2Soar The Goal Is Soul 10 10-10-2002 03:41 PM
The MacPhisto Society, Revisited Echo PLEBA Archive 15 11-26-2001 03:01 AM
Hinduism v. Christianity anitram Free Your Mind Archive 26 10-27-2001 09:28 AM
On Hell and Fundamentalism melon Free Your Mind Archive 1 10-07-2001 10:37 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com