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Old 09-23-2011, 05:57 PM   #421
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"Now that they have those things, they don't seem so important to this current Israeli government, partly because it's a different country," said Clinton. "In the interim, you've had all these immigrants coming in from the former Soviet Union, and they have no history in Israel proper, so the traditional claims of the Palestinians have less weight with them."
^ That reminded me of something Bill Clinton said a year ago, at the same conference, about the impact of recent mass immigration of Russian Jews (now 20% of Israel's Jewish population) on attitudes towards land-for-peace:
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"An increasing number of the young people in the IDF are the children of Russians and settlers, the hardest-core people against a division of the land. This presents a staggering problem," Clinton said. "It's a different Israel." ...According to Clinton, the Russian immigrant population in Israel is the group least interested in striking a peace deal with the Palestinians. "They've just got there, it's their country, they've made a commitment to the future there," Clinton said. "They can't imagine any historical or other claims that would justify dividing it."

To illustrate his view on the Russian immigrant community, Clinton related a conversation he had with Natan Sharansky, the former Soviet dissident turned Israeli parliamentarian, who he said was the only Israeli minister to reject the comprehensive peace agreement Clinton proposed at the Camp David Summit in 2000. The proposal was eventually rejected by Palestinian President Yasser Arafat. "I said, ‘Natan, what is the deal [about not supporting the peace deal],'" Clinton recalled. "He said, ‘I can't vote for this, I'm Russian...I come from one of the biggest countries in the world to one of the smallest. You want me to cut it in half. No thank you.'" Clinton responded, "Don't give me this, you came here from a jail cell. It's a lot bigger than your jail cell."

Clinton used the anecdote to explain the Russian immigrant population's attitude toward a land-for-peace deal with the Palestinians."[Sharansky] was nice about it, a lot of them aren't," Clinton said.
I suspect that last line is his diplomatic way of hinting that as a group they appear to have imported certain stereotypically undesirable i.e. deeply illiberal features of Russian political culture along with them, which Israel's critics in turn often express in a not-so-nice way (making it doubly weird to contemplate that it was Russian kibbutzniks who basically laid the foundations for the modern country). Obviously there's much more to it than this, it's also Hamas and the Second Intifada and the settlements policy and the rapid growth of nationalist-religious Judaism since the 1970s (all of which are interconnected), but like the latter two factors, it's one you'd hardly know existed from reading the American papers.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:02 PM   #422
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White House "deeply disappointed:" new Israeli housing in East Jerusalem - Lynn Sweet

World Leaders Condemn New Israeli Settlement Building Plan � VOA Breaking News

This is the type of action that will only benefit Palestinian Statehood.

Israel, why??????
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Old 10-02-2011, 04:07 AM   #423
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The answer is easy: because it's our capital city, that's why.......
The world doesn't accept it, that's THEIR problem.

Israel wouldn't say anything if the U.S. built new apartments in Washington DC, right?
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:09 AM   #424
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Israel wouldn't say anything if the U.S. built new apartments in Washington DC, right?
That's not a valid comparison and you know it.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:40 AM   #425
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That's not a valid comparison and you know it.
Of course it is.....why doesn't anyone dispute that Washington DC is the capital of the United States?

We can argue back and forth all day and all year but the fact remains that Jerusalem has always been our capital city (ALL of it) and we reclaimed the entire city in 1967 when we recaptured the east side which includes our holy places.

Jerusalem is a unified city and it will remain so......

Again, I understand that people don't accept it...
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:32 AM   #426
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Always? Always?
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:41 AM   #427
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Israel's biggest problem is not Hamas, but the extremists within it's own ranks.

Settlers' mosque-burning campaign expands into Israel | Reuters
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:07 PM   #428
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Of course it is.....why doesn't anyone dispute that Washington DC is the capital of the United States?

We can argue back and forth all day and all year but the fact remains that Jerusalem has always been our capital city (ALL of it) and we reclaimed the entire city in 1967 when we recaptured the east side which includes our holy places.

Jerusalem is a unified city and it will remain so......

Again, I understand that people don't accept it...
Even if that's true the building of new settlements at this point is unhelpful from an optics point of view.
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:56 AM   #429
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Israel's biggest problem is not Hamas, but the extremists within it's own ranks.

Settlers' mosque-burning campaign expands into Israel | Reuters
Hi Deep - I couldn't agree with you more on this.
I despise the right-wing extremists who think that desecrating graves and burning mosques is a proper response to terrorist attacks - or anything else for that matter.
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Old 10-09-2011, 10:57 AM   #430
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Even if that's true the building of new settlements at this point is unhelpful from an optics point of view.
Hi Financeguy,

But we're not talking about settlements in this case - we're talking about building new apartments in a Jerusalem neighborhood.
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Old 10-09-2011, 12:42 PM   #431
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The desecration of Christian and Muslim graves that occured the other day is not acceptable. If these people are not firmly dealt with by Israel then the international community will have to re-consider its support.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:41 AM   #432
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The desecration of Christian and Muslim graves that occured the other day is not acceptable. If these people are not firmly dealt with by Israel then the international community will have to re-consider its support.
I assure you that these criminals WILL be caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It is a well-known fact that Israel grants full freedom of religion to all three major faiths and any desecration of any holy site (including cemetaries) is considered a violation of our own belief system and is viewed with the utmost severity.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:10 PM   #433
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Not sure where else to put this...

Iranian actress Marzieh Vafamehr to be lashed over Australian film | Herald Sun

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Old 10-31-2011, 09:50 AM   #434
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YAY!!! What a great day for science-fiction fans!

Congrats.....
I'm now waiting for UNESCO to vote to accept Narnia and Oceania.

Mazal Tov!

U.N. agency approves full Palestinian membership - CNN.com
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:38 AM   #435
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Sarkozy, Obama bemoan Netanyahu over open mic - CNN.com

*in a loud voice*
I found this story to be VERY funny.....I have the greatest respect for President Obama and President Sarkozy....







*silently*
pssss.....by the way.......that black guy and the frog are a real pain in the ass.





.............What??? this is ON???..........ah Geez.....sorry.
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