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Old 08-28-2008, 09:40 PM   #46
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Do you think that any of these factors could conceivably be linked to the liberal agenda or the influence of left wing ideas in general?
No-fault divorce, computers, video games, single-parent homes, textbooks, and declining male role models all exist in right-wing states, as well, not to mention that, statistically, there's a higher rate of divorce in the Bible Belt than there is in "godless" New England.

It has nothing to do with leftists, and probably more to do with self-centeredness and greed, which, if I remember correctly, are celebrated libertarian virtues, rather than vices. It goes far beyond politics and more to do with culture, and do take notice that the paragons of morality in this country, the GOP and the Religious Right, have expressed no intentions whatsoever to ban or curtail divorce, instead choosing the classic tactic of scapegoating minorities to blame for all their personal failings. Medieval Christian Europe had Jews; present-day Republicans have gays.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:41 PM   #47
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aren't prescribed (to the best of my knowledge) to anything like the same extent as in the US.
Yes, it's marketing over medicine.
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They weren't seen as inadequate in dealing with the needs of boys 40 or even 20 years ago, why are they inadequate now? What changed?
At school; corporal punishment was forced out of schools, less men teachers, less physical education and less outside recess time in grade schools.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:44 PM   #48
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And I honestly believe that there are NOT enough fathers being role models. There are not enough male teachers at younger ages.
My brother is a teacher and he is wonderful. He's very athletic, 6'4", loves sports, loves doing extra-curriculars, plays guitars and the kids love him.

But he's teaching high school and almost all of his male friends from teachers college are as well, because no guy in today's society wants to go to kindergarten. A little kid bursts into tears and needs a hug and you get called a pervert. So why risk it?
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:44 PM   #49
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At school; corporal punishment was forced out of schools, less men teachers, less physical education and less outside recess time in grade schools.

I don't agree with corporal punishment. But your other points ring very true to me.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:44 PM   #50
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Interesting point - I have increased recess time - hoping it decreases behavior issues...increasing learning.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:44 PM   #51
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At school; corporal punishment was forced out of schools
Corporal punishment is legal in well over a dozen states and is still practiced regularly in most of them, I imagine. I'd love to see the statistics as to whether these school districts have better performance than those that do not have it. I have a hunch that they don't.

It is possible to have strict discipline without resorting to physical violence. Catholic schools around the country do it all the time and successfully.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #52
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It has nothing to do with leftists, and probably more to do with self-centeredness and greed, which, if I remember correctly, are celebrated libertarian virtues, rather than vices.
Wrong. You completely misunderstand libertarianism.

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It goes far beyond politics and more to do with culture, and do take notice that the paragons of morality in this country, the GOP and the Religious Right, have expressed no intentions whatsoever to ban or curtail divorce, instead choosing the classic tactic of scapegoating minorities to blame for all their personal failings. Medieval Christian Europe had Jews; present-day Republicans have gays.
While I wouldn't dispute any of that, the reason the religious right don't try to restrict divorce rights is surely that the public simply wouldn't have it.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:49 PM   #53
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my son, who is 10 yrs old takes a form of ritalin, called Concerta and it has been a godsend for him. He was diagnosed with ADHD/ODD when he was 6. His ability to focus and succeed academically in school has been amazing. He is a supersmart kid and does especially well in math and science. There have been days where he hasn't taken his meds and it was noticable but not extreme.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:49 PM   #54
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My brother is a teacher and he is wonderful. He's very athletic, 6'4", loves sports, loves doing extra-curriculars, plays guitars and the kids love him.

But he's teaching high school and almost all of his male friends from teachers college are as well, because no guy in today's society wants to go to kindergarten. A little kid bursts into tears and needs a hug and you get called a pervert. So why risk it?
Do you believe it is not worth the risk? I have been doing this for fourteen years. I have worked with no more than one other male at any time. My current staff is now up to 70 people. It is the custodian and I.

Now, what does that say? I do not know?

But I know when I was a classroom teacher, the boys with issues worked out well when they were placed with me.

I know that when I go out to recess, it changes the attitudes of students who have been labeled "severly emotionally disturbed" if I play catch with them.

I know that the student who has arrived at my school who was suspended for over thirty days in grade one and could not possibly survive without an aide, has somehow made it...

Why risk it?

Because it makes a difference.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #55
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Wrong. You completely misunderstand libertarianism.
Most American libertarians have wet dreams over Reagan still, and, again, are only "libertarians" because they don't want to pay taxes. I cannot comment on non-American libertarians.

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While I wouldn't dispute any of that, the reason the religious right don't try to restrict is surely that the public simply wouldn't have it.
Indeed. How dare we condemn or restrict the behavior of heterosexuals, when we can just condemn and restrict the behaviors of minorities instead, and claim everything is fixed now?
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #56
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I'm not commenting on it either way - I didn't choose teaching nor would I ever in a million years choose it except at a university level because I simply don't have the patience and trust me the kids are better off.

But I'm saying to you that this is the perception right now in teachers' colleges among the young males, for better or worse.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:56 PM   #57
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Most American libertarians have wet dreams over Reagan still, and, again, are only "libertarians" because they don't want to pay taxes. I cannot comment on non-American libertarians.
Is it fair to say that most American liberals are only "liberals" because they are envious of rich people? No, clearly not, so I don't think your above characterisation of most American libertarians is fair either.

Incidentally, on US libertarian forums I have visited, Reagan is not particularly venerated (Thatcher more so) and the Christian right are largely despised.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:58 PM   #58
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I'm not commenting on it either way - I didn't choose teaching nor would I ever in a million years choose it except at a university level because I simply don't have the patience and trust me the kids are better off.

But I'm saying to you that this is the perception right now in teachers' colleges among the young males, for better or worse.
Believe me I understand the perception. I am never alone with kids without my door open or another adult in the room. When I get hugged, I make sure my hands are in sight of everyone.

But it is worth it...

The best part of my day today involved kids: I was sitting on a hill with a child who did not speak to anyone a year ago...and he told me about his summer.

An African American child in the first grade, told me today that she was going to be president like Barrack Obama.

A down syndrome child from kindergarten walked up to me outside this morning and said "Hi Mr S. this is my Dad" and made me shake his hand. She then told her dad she liked my school.

It was a great day. So when my military buddies bust my chops - I laugh, because they would not understand that the things like these little stories mean more to me than the jokes and public perception of males in my profession
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:00 PM   #59
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Incidentally, on US libertarian forums I have visited, Reagan is not particularly venerated and the Christian right are largely despised.
Well, then it appears that things are finally changing. Here's hoping we'll get a true libertarian movement in the U.S. that supports both smaller government and positive rights, rather than just the former. I think it's no secret that I despise both "paleoconservatives" and "paleolibertarians."
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:05 PM   #60
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I think it's no secret that I despise both "paleoconservatives" and "paleolibertarians."

You don't REALLY hate me, Melon, do you.
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