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Old 09-02-2008, 11:19 PM   #61
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Ok, let me try and clarify...

IT'S NOT THE FACT THAT HE WAS A POW, IT'S WHAT HE DID AS A POW AND SINCE BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE.

I'm suspicious that many of you don't know the actualy POW story.


i do. i know that he attempted suicide and make false confessions. he admitted that every man has his breaking point and they found his. it makes McCain very human to me.

what he's done SINCE being a POW is what makes me not want him to be president, and it's what he's done since losing in 2000 that makes me not want him to be president even more.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:31 PM   #62
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Not to flame you at all...but when has Obama showed this judgment? Daley political connections? Coke? Connections to domestic terrorists and the likes of Rezco?
In his stances. That's the bottom line for me. Stances and plans. Obama has the stances and plans I think would help America a hell of a lot more than McCain.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:35 PM   #63
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"John McCain was a POW" doesn't qualify him to be president. But as was stated, it played in incredible role in his character. Hearing the stories of his military service and capture, and his persistent hope and optimism, and putting his country and his fellow servicemen before his own well-being speaks volumes to me.

I like what Lieberman said. If the Democrats want to make the election about judgment, fine. Anyone who votes to cut off funding to our troops at war has no business being president. That's good judgment?

I don't understand how people can think that Barack Obama will end the political partisanship in Washington, when A) he never has done anything of the sort, and B) he's the most liberal man in the senate. Can anyone give me examples of when Obama went against his own party on something? John McCain has done just that.
That's all nice and all, but his view of America's future differs too much from mine. He wants us to be at war with Iraq for another hundred years. I'm with the guy who made the symbolic vote to end the war, personally. His judgment is simple: let's start getting out of Iraq. That's what his vote was about. It's quite simple, and you read too much into that. Look at his plan on getting out of Iraq. That's where the real stance of Barack Obama is. That's where his judgment is.

I'm not asking or expecting him to end political partisanship in Washington. I'm asking him to nominate judges that will end conservative bullshit and give civil rights to everyone. I'm asking him to start moving the economy out of its constant tailspin. I'm asking to start getting us out of Iraq. Not do a shitload of things all at once. Start us in the right direction, that's all. I think it's reasonable, and I think he can do it.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:36 PM   #64
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I'm curious. Why is it when there is talk of John McCain's POW experience, Obama supporters are awfully quick to say "that doesn't qualify him to be President!"....Yet when I ask my friends who are Obama supporters what they like about him, they say things like "he understands what it's like to work your way up, work yourself through college...etc." Seems pretty hypocritical to me. How does Obama's background qualify him for President? By this logic, we can't use anybody's past experience as a judge of character...doesn't make sense.
It's not a judge of judgment. I think the stances and plans are the best indicators of judgment.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:41 PM   #65
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In his stances. That's the bottom line for me. Stances and plans. Obama has the stances and plans I think would help America a hell of a lot more than McCain.
you and several of his supporters have said this before

and I take you at your word.



however, stances and plans are not set in stone
there is no guarantee

also, there is no record of him really doing anything
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:54 PM   #66
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It's not a judge of judgment. I think the stances and plans are the best indicators of judgment.
I think it is also best to make sure those plans are realistic.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:54 PM   #67
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what he's done SINCE being a POW is what makes me not want him to be president, and it's what he's done since losing in 2000 that makes me not want him to be president even more.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:54 PM   #68
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you and several of his supporters have said this before

and I take you at your word.



however, stances and plans are not set in stone
there is no guarantee

also, there is no record of him really doing anything
your point here confuses me a bit, as you seem quite anti-bush, so to speak, yet mccain voted with bush almost 90% of the time and about 95% of the time since 2007. that's a hell of a track record.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:57 PM   #69
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you and several of his supporters have said this before

and I take you at your word.

however, stances and plans are not set in stone
there is no guarantee

also, there is no record of him really doing anything
Nothing is set in stone, especially considering situations will change. But I think that, because his plans are feasible, because they are built in reality, he will be able to act on a lot of them, and start a lot of things in the right direction. They're not overly ambitious. They're doable. They show a good grasp of the current situation.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:59 PM   #70
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your point here confuses me a bit, as you seem quite anti-bush, so to speak, yet mccain voted with bush almost 90% of the time and about 95% of the time since 2007. that's a hell of a track record.
Obama likes to talk about that 90% figure. He better be careful. Obama has voted with Bush about 50% of the time. Should the nation take a 50% chance on change?

Also, McCain is much more likely to vote against his party, voting with Republicans 70-90% of the time compared to Obama voting with Democrats 95% of the time.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:03 AM   #71
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Obama likes to talk about that 90% figure. He better be careful. Obama has voted with Bush about 50% of the time. Should the nation take a 50% chance on change?

Also, McCain is much more likely to vote against his party, voting with Republicans 70-90% of the time compared to Obama voting with Democrats 95% of the time.
that's fair, i guess - though completely irrelevant.

i'm trying to make sense of deep's position about track records when mccain's is firmly behind bush, a president that deep seems to dislike. i didn't suggest that obama was a better choice.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:08 AM   #72
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Good news, gals, they're preparing a special FEMININE speech just for us!!

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As for the speech itself, Davis said a generic, "masculine" speech was being prepared before the pick was made and, now that Palin is the choice, she is adapting the speech to her own needs and personality.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:11 AM   #73
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your point here confuses me a bit, as you seem quite anti-bush, so to speak, yet mccain voted with bush almost 90% of the time and about 95% of the time since 2007. that's a hell of a track record.


Obama voted with Bush on Iraq 86 times.


What per cent of the time do you think Biden or Obama voted with Bush ?


I am pretty ambivalent about this election.

I am still undecided.

My confidence has never been more than about 53 % for one candidate.

In 1996, 2000, and 2004 I was somewhere between 85-98 % confident of my vote. I did vote Democratic in those 3 elections.


McCain is a lot different than Bush.

Obama is the least qualified candidate to get the nomination that I can recall, expect perhaps Bush.

So Obama is a roll of the dice.

and with McCain, I expect the Dem majorities in the Senate and House to keep him from anything too extreme.
So for someone like me that was happy with a somewhat middle course, like Bill Clinton's Presidency, which candidate is for me?
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:13 AM   #74
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Obama voted with Bush on Iraq 86 times.


What per cent of the time do you think Biden or Obama voted with Bush ?


I am pretty ambivalent about this election.

I am still undecided.

My confidence has never been more than about 53 % for one candidate.

In 1996, 2000, and 2004 I was somewhere between 85-98 % confident of my vote. I did vote Democratic in those 3 elections.


McCain is a lot different than Bush.

Obama is the least qualified candidate to get the nomination that I can recall, expect perhaps Bush.

So Obama is a roll of the dice.

and with McCain, I expect the Dem majorities in the Senate and House to keep him from anything too extreme.
So for someone like me that was happy with a somewhat middle course, like Bill Clinton's Presidency, which candidate is for me?
When the time comes, will you tell us who you vote for? I think I speak for all of FYM when I say I'm very curious as to which you will eventually pick.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:14 AM   #75
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and with McCain, I expect the Dem majorities in the Senate and House to keep him from anything too extreme.
this would have sufficed.
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