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Old 09-02-2008, 11:04 PM   #46
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Shape parts of their character, yes. Not wholly, as I don't think anything wholly defines someone. But I think it has no bearing in his judgment as president, and in the end, judgment is the thing I take issue most with when it comes to McCain as a presidential candidate.
Not to flame you at all...but when has Obama showed this judgment? Daley political connections? Coke? Connections to domestic terrorists and the likes of Rezco?
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:08 PM   #47
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I agree 100% on Lieberman - can't stand him. I'm so glad McCain didn't pick him as VP. On the other hand, being a fan of Obama it's too bad he didn't pick him - it would have torn the Republican party apart and the election would have been over before it began.
I don't think so. Look what he did after being nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate for the Democratic party.

He can't be trusted. He'll turn on a whim.
He doesn't have any credibility.

I sincerely can't believe they even let him speak at this convention.
With the exception that they used him and he allowed himself to be used.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:08 PM   #48
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"John McCain was a POW" doesn't qualify him to be president. But as was stated, it played in incredible role in his character. Hearing the stories of his military service and capture, and his persistent hope and optimism, and putting his country and his fellow servicemen before his own well-being speaks volumes to me.

I like what Lieberman said. If the Democrats want to make the election about judgment, fine. Anyone who votes to cut off funding to our troops at war has no business being president. That's good judgment?

I don't understand how people can think that Barack Obama will end the political partisanship in Washington, when A) he never has done anything of the sort, and B) he's the most liberal man in the senate. Can anyone give me examples of when Obama went against his own party on something? John McCain has done just that.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:09 PM   #49
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I'm curious. Why is it when there is talk of John McCain's POW experience, Obama supporters are awfully quick to say "that doesn't qualify him to be President!"....Yet when I ask my friends who are Obama supporters what they like about him, they say things like "he understands what it's like to work your way up, work yourself through college...etc." Seems pretty hypocritical to me. How does Obama's background qualify him for President? By this logic, we can't use anybody's past experience as a judge of character...doesn't make sense.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:10 PM   #50
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He can't be trusted. He'll turn on a whim.
He doesn't have any credibility.
But if a Republican endorsed Obama, he'd be bold and be a great example and have loads of credibility, right?
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:10 PM   #51
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I don't think so. Look what he did after being nominated as a Vice Presidential candidate for the Democratic party.

He can't be trusted. He'll turn on a whim.
He doesn't have any credibility.

I sincerely can't believe they even let him speak at this convention.
With the exception that they used him and he allowed himself to be used.
Shouldn't the criteria for credibility be standing by what you believe in and NOT changing it because it is the unpopular thing to do? He didn't turn on anything. His party turned on him.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:12 PM   #52
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I like what Lieberman said. If the Democrats want to make the election about judgment, fine. Anyone who votes to cut off funding to our troops at war has no business being president. That's good judgment?

when you are in congress, the only option you have to stop a war is by cutting funding.




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I don't understand how people can think that Barack Obama will end the political partisanship in Washington, when A) he never has done anything of the sort, and B) he's the most liberal man in the senate. Can anyone give me examples of when Obama went against his own party on something? John McCain has done just that.

you know the charge "the most liberal" in the Senate was thrown against Gore in 2000, against Kerry in 2004 ... and it would have been thrown against HRC had she won the nomination. it's a total fabrication created by right wing magazines to give pundits a talking point.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:13 PM   #53
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Shouldn't the criteria for credibility be standing by what you believe in and NOT changing it because it is the unpopular thing to do? He didn't turn on anything. His party turned on him.


and the Palin pick shows that he'll do whatever his party wants. as did his support for Bush in 2004 after what the Bushies did to McC in 2000.

the Maverick label is a misnomer.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:15 PM   #54
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I don't understand how people can think that Barack Obama will end the political partisanship in Washington, when A) he never has done anything of the sort, and B) he's the most liberal man in the senate. Can anyone give me examples of when Obama went against his own party on something? John McCain has done just that.
For one, I think we've already established that the whole "most liberal man in the Senate" crap is always the label slapped onto the Democratic presidential candidate. I think that statistic is meaningless.

Secondly, what opportunity has Obama had to go against his party? The Democrats have been in opposition the entire time, and most of what the GOP constitutes as "legislation" is nonsensical crap that should be fought against, which is why it is easier to find examples of McCain going against his party.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:15 PM   #55
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I'm curious. Why is it when there is talk of John McCain's POW experience, Obama supporters are awfully quick to say "that doesn't qualify him to be President!"....Yet when I ask my friends who are Obama supporters what they like about him, they say things like "he understands what it's like to work your way up, work yourself through college...etc." Seems pretty hypocritical to me. How does Obama's background qualify him for President? By this logic, we can't use anybody's past experience as a judge of character...doesn't make sense.

i think biography is important, to a point.

judgment matters a bit more.

but, for me, what matters most is what policies this person has said he/she is going to pursue. i have my issues. i want a president who is going to best represent these issues. and then i want a president who's overall philosophies are most in-line with my own. i would never vote for someone because i think they are a "good man" or because they deserve it.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:15 PM   #56
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and the Palin pick shows that he'll do whatever his party wants. as did his support for Bush in 2004 after what the Bushies did to McC in 2000.

the Maverick label is a misnomer.
Irvine, my comment was about Lieberman...
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:16 PM   #57
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Irvine, my comment was about Lieberman...


shoot, sorry.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:17 PM   #58
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Ok, let me try and clarify...

IT'S NOT THE FACT THAT HE WAS A POW, IT'S WHAT HE DID AS A POW AND SINCE BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE.

I'm suspicious that many of you don't know the actualy POW story.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:17 PM   #59
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when you are in congress, the only option you have to stop a war is by cutting funding.
Indeed. I guess the whole part in the Constitution about Congress having the sole power to declare war has been effectively null for the last 50 years. I guess the budget is the only card Congress still has left.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:18 PM   #60
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Ok, let me try and clarify...

IT'S NOT THE FACT THAT HE WAS A POW, IT'S WHAT HE DID AS A POW AND SINCE BECAUSE OF THE EXPERIENCE.

I'm suspicious that many of you don't know the actualy POW story.
May I suggest a retelling of the story, according to your POV, and why you think it is relevant to becoming President?

I think it might be a nice change of pace from the usual pissing match, if you have the time.
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