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Old 12-21-2008, 10:08 AM   #31
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Sorry to butt in the forum, but I can't stand it when organizations like PETA post these kind of things when it's just not true...
Yea, ofcourse there's bat fats and cholesterol in meat, but that doesn't mean you get 'healthy' when you stop eating it! Eat it in decent dosages of around 100-200 g a day and you get all the healthy parts of it too! think of the proteins, iron and other mineralsm vitamins and provitamins!
Sorry to butt in as well but that's meat industry hype. Not only are none of the things you mentioned exclusive to meat, but animal proteins are far worse for you than protein from vegetable sources. With the exception of vitamin B12, meat contains NOTHING that you couldn't get healthier somewhere else.

I won't even get into how animal protein (including dairy) leeches calcium from your body, nor how most people get waaaay more protein than they need anyway, but there's probably a reason that vegetarians live an average of 13 years longer than non vegetarians.

The meat and dairy industries have spent billions of dollars trying to convince us that we need to give them our money. Ain't true, and never was.

I'm no fan of PETA, but you don't have to be to want to stay healthy.
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Old 12-22-2008, 10:26 AM   #32
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Sorry to butt in as well but that's meat industry hype. Not only are none of the things you mentioned exclusive to meat, but animal proteins are far worse for you than protein from vegetable sources. With the exception of vitamin B12, meat contains NOTHING that you couldn't get healthier somewhere else.

I won't even get into how animal protein (including dairy) leeches calcium from your body, nor how most people get waaaay more protein than they need anyway, but there's probably a reason that vegetarians live an average of 13 years longer than non vegetarians.

The meat and dairy industries have spent billions of dollars trying to convince us that we need to give them our money. Ain't true, and never was.

I'm no fan of PETA, but you don't have to be to want to stay healthy.
Thank you for posting this, it's amazing the lengths people will go to justify eating meat.

oh and the term "humane slaughter" is an oxymoron of the highest level. The only time a term like "humane" should be used when killing another living creature is if they are in pain. I'm sorry but as stupid as cows and chickens may be, they are not lining up to die.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:11 PM   #33
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Thank you for posting this, it's amazing the lengths people will go to justify eating meat.

oh and the term "humane slaughter" is an oxymoron of the highest level. The only time a term like "humane" should be used when killing another living creature is if they are in pain. I'm sorry but as stupid as cows and chickens may be, they are not lining up to die.
and the justification for NOT eating meat isn't equally "amazing"?

i'm sorry, but i couldn't give a shit if someone had a problem with me eating meat. i've got vegan and vegetarian friends, and they're lovely... but just as i don't shove meat in their face, they don't shove their idealogy in mine.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:21 PM   #34
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You can have a healthy diet whether you're vegetarian or not.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:45 PM   #35
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Not only are none of the things you mentioned exclusive to meat, but animal proteins are far worse for you than protein from vegetable sources. With the exception of vitamin B12, meat contains NOTHING that you couldn't get healthier somewhere else.
True that but they are dang more expensive! My main issue with being a veggie is that the meat I eat is free (unless I'm eating out or at someone's house, it's all venison which is very lean, butchered by my dad, not some cow that was fed lord knows what and slaughtered), and it keeps for a loooong time in the freezer. One deer costs the price of the tag, and that's enough meat to feed a lot of dogs and people for a long time. Good produce is not free, and generally spoils before I can even eat half of it.

The meat vs. veggie and whole healthy eating thing has always been a "pick my battles" issue for me. I only have enough money and time in the day to focus on a certain number of things and at this point, making avoiding meat has not been one of them. I do not dispute that perhaps being a veggie is healthier than eating meat, but ya know, driving a really expensive car is safer than driving a '94 Chevy Blazer with bare tires but what can I do about it? Personally, I think I need to give up more carbs and diary if I really want to be healthier, I think the results of me giving up meat would really be marginal since I don't eat that much meat anyway. I need to eat less pasta/white bread kind of stuff and more beans/lentils stuff and just cut back on the cheese more altogether if I really want to put a lot of effort into it. I don't think even 10% of my diet is meat and even then, I think I could replace a few things with MORE lean meats and still be healthier if I was being nit-picky. I've got someone that looks over my diet, I go to the dr at least once a year, and I get blood drawn so I have my glucose, cholesterol, HDL, blood pressure, BMI etc. measured and all fall in the very low end of the healthiest range so for now that's good enough for me.

I DO refuse any form of "processed" meat simply because I hate it and it makes me gag (hot dogs, sausage, pepperoni, ground beef, bolongne, etc).
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:52 PM   #36
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and the justification for NOT eating meat isn't equally "amazing"?

i'm sorry, but i couldn't give a shit if someone had a problem with me eating meat. i've got vegan and vegetarian friends, and they're lovely... but just as i don't shove meat in their face, they don't shove their idealogy in mine.
not to "shove" my ideology down your throat but other than "I need protein", "it tastes good" and "we've always done it this way" standard responses, what exactly is the justification for it then?
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:02 PM   #37
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not to "shove" my ideology down your throat but other than "I need protein", "it tastes good" and "we've always done it this way" standard responses, what exactly is the justification for it then?
It's way cheaper? I eat a lot of stuff that could definitely be replaced with alternatives that offer the same nutrition or better but....I balance what I need with what I'm willing to spend. I'm probably a lot pickier about what my dogs eat than myself and if I have kids they are getting fresh baby food from the food processor, not the canned Gerber stuff.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:09 PM   #38
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It's way cheaper? I eat a lot of stuff that could definitely be replaced with alternatives that offer the same nutrition or better but....I balance what I need with what I'm willing to spend. I'm probably a lot pickier about what my dogs eat than myself and if I have kids they are getting fresh baby food from the food processor, not the canned Gerber stuff.
Interesting, given the state of the economy you may have a point in some ways. Although canned and dried staples like legumes and lentils that offer just as much (if not more) protein are probably still cheaper, especially if you are not interested in cheap processed meats.

I understand my opinion is not a popular one so I'm not going to lecture or anything like that. I get the fact that most people love their meat and all, It saddens me that most don't look past the taste and convenience of it though...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:15 PM   #39
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Interesting, given the state of the economy you may have a point in some ways. Although canned and dried staples like legumes and lentils that offer just as much (if not more) protein are probably still cheaper, especially if you are not interested in cheap processed meats.
I'm sure they are cheaper. The meat we eat is free though (and these are steaks, backstraps, roasts, and stew cuts, not processed meats), and nothing is cheaper than that! I'm not saying it's better, just offering my explanation. Also I hate cooking and can't stand to devote any time to preparing and storing food. I get my meat pre-packaged and toss it in the freezer. Most of it is kept in my grandpa's large freezer so when I want more I got there and take it. If I want to eat it, I heat it up in the microwave or on the stove. We only take out as much as we are going to eat for that meal or a little more if we plan to eat some later. I'm sure I could buy a giant bag of lentils for the same price as a few small meat cuts at the store, but I don't want to cook with lentils or have to store them. And like I said, I eat meat that I or Phil has prepared maybe once a week or once every two weeks anyway.

Really, we'd have to be millionaires to afford to do everything as safely and healthy as we possibly could. There are things about my house, my car, my bike, my job, my shoes, my computer screen....that are not safe or 100% healthy, but that's just life for most of us. I hate cooking and don't care enough about meat one way or the other for it to even matter to me.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:15 PM   #40
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Interesting, given the state of the economy you may have a point in some ways. Although canned and dried staples like legumes and lentils that offer just as much (if not more) protein are probably still cheaper, especially if you are not interested in cheap processed meats.
Other than legumes and lentils, what plant-based foods can you eat for protein? I can't stand either. Well, other than peanuts.

I'm weird with meat. I find myself getting more and more turned off of it, but there are certain times that I crave it, too. I doubt I'd ever give it up entirely, but what would you suggest for protein other than lentils and legumes for someone who would like to cut back on meat?
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:20 PM   #41
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Other than legumes and lentils, what plant-based foods can you eat for protein? I can't stand either. Well, other than peanuts.

I'm weird with meat. I find myself getting more and more turned off of it, but there are certain times that I crave it, too. I doubt I'd ever give it up entirely, but what would you suggest for protein other than lentils and legumes for someone who would like to cut back on meat?
well there is the obvious Soy, not sure what you think about Tofu...

other sources are grains (wheat, oats, rice, barley, buckwheat, millet, pasta, bread), nuts (brazils, hazels, almonds, cashews) and seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, sesame).
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:26 PM   #42
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Other than legumes and lentils, what plant-based foods can you eat for protein? I can't stand either. Well, other than peanuts.

I'm weird with meat. I find myself getting more and more turned off of it, but there are certain times that I crave it, too. I doubt I'd ever give it up entirely, but what would you suggest for protein other than lentils and legumes for someone who would like to cut back on meat?
I'm like you. I cannot stand ANY form of nut or anyting with the texture resembling a nut or seed, I literally gag and spit it out. Doesn't matter how healthy it is or how it's dressed up, I won't eat it. I'd rather eat a rare cooked lean steak and run an extra half our to make up for it!

When I did gymnastics every day there would be some days I'd get home at 11pm and have these insane cravings for red meat. I've never really liked meat that much, if that's what my parents made for dinner I would eat it, but I don't order steaks at restaurants and such. But I would have such strong cravings I'd come home and be eating plain venison stew meat at midnight. Granted, back then I was burning off so many calories I probably DID need good red meat to be healthy.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:34 PM   #43
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I'm like you. I cannot stand ANY form of nut or anyting with the texture resembling a nut or seed, I literally gag and spit it out. Doesn't matter how healthy it is or how it's dressed up, I won't eat it. I'd rather eat a rare cooked lean steak and run an extra half our to make up for it!

When I did gymnastics every day there would be some days I'd get home at 11pm and have these insane cravings for red meat. I've never really liked meat that much, if that's what my parents made for dinner I would eat it, but I don't order steaks at restaurants and such. But I would have such strong cravings I'd come home and be eating plain venison stew meat at midnight. Granted, back then I was burning off so many calories I probably DID need good red meat to be healthy.
My problem is bean-type things. I can't stand the texture of them. Ew, grossest thing ever! Some nuts are okay, but I can't see myself eating them regularly. Plus, they're quite high in fat, aren't they? I know it's a healthier fat, but still. This being turned off of meat is a very recent thing for me, just over the past few years. But unlike you, I'm more turned off of unprocessed meat. I think for me, processed almost seems more removed from the animal, and as such, it's less unappealing, in a weird way. It could also be that in recent years, I've been trying to eat in a modified Atkins way - lean meat, vegetables, some fruit, fewer carbs, less fat - and I've just gotten sick of meat.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:38 PM   #44
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VP, there are a lot of textured soy products in grocery stores these days which mimic meat to the point of being eerily too close for even me sometimes, If you are more into the processed meats to start with you might want to give some of these a try.

Yves and Tofurkey (yes, tofurkey) are two good companies to look for, for example...
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:39 PM   #45
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I was raised a vegetarian and still eat that way at home. The only time I eat meat is when we go out to eat at restaurants or we are eating at someone else's home. I still am very uncomfortable cooking meat, since I don't really know how.

I think it is healthier to be vegetarian, but I think you can be healthy if you eat meat in moderation as well. I think Lies probably has the perfect way to eat meat. The meat she does eat is probably way healthier than most and the deer had a nice life in the wild until met it's untimely end and found itself in grandpa's freezer.

As for the cruelty to animals aspect, I do think that is something we should be concerned about to a degree, especially those animals being raised for mass slaughter and the conditions they are often raised under. I feel like if you eat meat, you need to be willing to face what it takes to put that meat on your plate. I kind of take that stereotypical Native American approach--"Thank you, cow, for giving your life so that I can eat. . ."
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