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Old 08-18-2014, 12:01 AM   #106
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Yeah - I guess they Photoshopped the surveillance video...

It seems you actually WANT to believe that this white man (with only a very positive record) shot an innocent black man just for kicks. Yet, you care nothing about the daily slaughter of truly innocent black people by other black people.
Alright, now I'm on my computer. I didn't say shit about photoshopping a surveillance video so don't act like I'm a moron. This has nothing to do with me trying to fill in a narrative, so just stop making strawmen already.

My point is this: the video doesn't mean ANYTHING if the cop didn't know anything about the robbery (I don't believe he did, and it will take some serious evidence to the contrary to make me think anything different). So right off the bat, the video is a big fucking distraction.

Even if the cop DID know about the robbery (and again, he didn't know this was related to the robbery whether the police say so or not), what difference does it make? It was never an armed robbery. This cop was never in danger. He was never charged at (only the police have said this: not a single eyewitness indicated anything close to the kid charging the police, it's nonsense). This cop shot a kid who was 35 feet away multiple times (at least six). He shot him twice in the fucking head.

Now ... I don't think you're a virulent racist and I don't think you're blindly supporting cops. What I do think is that you're angry that liberals think this proves they're right and want to tap away at the details to point out that this is bleeding heart liberal overreaction. You're mad about the idea that, in your mind, liberals are co-opting a tragedy to make political points and are so giddy about the idea of being able to paint white people in power as racist that they're willing to twist or outright ignore facts so that they can maintain the narrative that the white racist cop shot the innocent black kid. And an 18-year-old who may have taken $5 cigarellos is a criminal who got what he deserved (after all, he must have gotten violent with the cop, they said so, thus it must be true, right? why else would he have shot him?).

The problem is this: you're wrong and you've always been wrong. American liberals DEFINITIVELY have a more realistic view of race relations in this country than moderates or conservatives. Period. End of fucking story. This isn't liberals co-opting a tragedy. This is liberals being proven right about institutionalized racism in this country.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:10 AM   #107
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I don't think he's trolling to get a rise out of anyone, he genuinely believes what he's saying, and the other conservative posters this board has had in the past would be saying the same thing.

I don't know, Aeon started here guns blazing years ago, but was eventually able to speak and discuss in nuance. This is out of character for the Aeon of late, but who knows...


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Old 08-18-2014, 12:13 AM   #108
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I'm curious, Aeon - you have yet to reply to the eyewitness reports. There have been at least two independent sources - sources who don't know each other - who claim that Brown was shot while fleeing and then gunned down once he turned around with his hands up. What are your thoughts on that? If those witnesses' stories are accurate, do you STILL think Officer Wilson was justified in killing Brown?
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:13 AM   #109
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I don't think he's trolling to get a rise out of anyone, he genuinely believes what he's saying, and the other conservative posters this board has had in the past would be saying the same thing.
Agreed. Over the past few years - to disagree with the "Left" in here is equated to trolling.

And I only lean conservative in my personal life. I genuinely hate politics. But I despise the media even more. They find isolated stories like this - jump to conclusions - get everyone riled up - only to find out later the events didn't actually fit the "the script."
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:18 AM   #110
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Agreed. Over the past few years - to disagree with the "Left" in here is equated to trolling.



And I only lean conservative in my personal life. I genuinely hate politics. But I despise the media even more. They find isolated stories like this - jump to conclusions - get everyone riled up - only to find out later the events didn't actually fit the "the script."

This isn't an isolated story. This has happened before and unfortunately will happen again.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:18 AM   #111
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.
The autopsy is consistent with this: the second headshot went through the top of his skull, which would indicate that it was after he had fallen forward from the first headshot.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:22 AM   #112
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Diemen,

There are already some conflicting eyewitness reports. A Witness Conversation Unknowingly Captured at the Scene of the Ferguson Shooting is a Game-Changer

Just as your are skeptical of the police versions, I am skeptical of those that want to paint the police (and white people) in the worst possible light any chance they get. In the interviews with the citizens of Ferguson, there is an obvious "Us vs Them" feeling.

Also - I am truly waiting for the forensics to come to form a final conclusion. I want to see if the officer was assaulted in his vehicle and to what degree. I want to know if Michael was in the front seat of the squad car. I want to know how many shots were fired and where they hit.

If Michael did punch the officer (which is astoundingly stupid), fought him for the gun, ran away, and then charged the officer while the officer had the gun pointed at him - then I would think the officer was justified in shooting him. If it turns out the officer simply took out his weapon and shot Michael in broad daylight in the middle of the road for no reason (and by doing so - completely erasing an otherwise stellar career and reputation), then the officer is guilty of murder.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:32 AM   #113
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Now ... I don't think you're a virulent racist and I don't think you're blindly supporting cops. What I do think is that you're angry that liberals think this proves they're right and want to tap away at the details to point out that this is bleeding heart liberal overreaction. You're mad about the idea that, in your mind, liberals are co-opting a tragedy to make political points and are so giddy about the idea of being able to paint white people in power as racist that they're willing to twist or outright ignore facts so that they can maintain the narrative that the white racist cop shot the innocent black kid.
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The problem is this: you're wrong and you've always been wrong.
It is this sort of thinking that I find so damned boring. You make some good points - and I truly listen/dwell on them - then you fall into this mindset. Even blind odds would give me a chance of being right on occasion...

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American liberals DEFINITIVELY have a more realistic view of race relations in this country than moderates or conservatives.
Just because you say so - does not make it so. Every perspective must be listened to, respected, and taken into consideration (even if there is no agreement in the end).

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Period. End of fucking story.
Who sounds like a red state redneck now?

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This isn't liberals co-opting a tragedy.
Correct - it's the media doing what they do best - making news (which means making money).
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:33 AM   #114
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Diemen,

There are already some conflicting eyewitness reports. A Witness Conversation Unknowingly Captured at the Scene of the Ferguson Shooting is a Game-Changer

Just as your are skeptical of the police versions, I am skeptical of those that want to paint the police (and white people) in the worst possible light any chance they get. In the interviews with the citizens of Ferguson, there is an obvious "Us vs Them" feeling.

Also - I am truly waiting for the forensics to come to form a final conclusion. I want to see if the officer was assaulted in his vehicle and to what degree. I want to know if Michael was in the front seat of the squad car. I want to know how many shots were fired and where they hit.

If Michael did punch the officer (which is astoundingly stupid), fought him for the gun, ran away, and then charged the officer while the officer had the gun pointed at him - then I would think the officer was justified in shooting him. If it turns out the officer simply took out his weapon and shot Michael in broad daylight in the middle of the road for no reason (and by doing so - completely erasing an otherwise stellar career and reputation), then the officer is guilty of murder.

You do realize there's an option C, right? Seriously you have become the monster that you're bitching about...


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Old 08-18-2014, 12:36 AM   #115
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It is this sort of thinking that I find so damned boring. You make some good points - and I truly listen/dwell on them - then you fall into this mindset. Even blind odds would give me a chance of being right on occasion...

Just because you say so - does not make it so. Every perspective must be listened to, respected, and taken into consideration (even if there is no agreement in the end).

Who sounds like a red state redneck now?

Correct - it's the media doing what they do best - making news (which means making money).
lol ok
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:38 AM   #116
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Edit: oops, seems this thread progressed on quite a bit in the time between me opening the reply window and actually typing the reply. Carry on folks.

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Curious - if the forensic evidence points out that Michael Brown DID punch Darren Wilson in the face and DID rush toward the officer after being ordered to freeze - would that change your mind about this incident?
Not in the slightest. The police in Australia and New Zealand seem perfectly capable of disabling threats from far more aggressive individuals without routinely resorting to deadly force. Hell, the regular Kiwi police don't even carry guns, and anybody who has visited South Auckland or the Hutt Valley can tell you that's not because New Zealand is some idyllic bastion of social cohesion.

Whatever actually happened, it's pretty clear the teen did not pose a threat to the officer's life and the officer had no need to use his gun or apply deadly force.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:44 AM   #117
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Agreed. Over the past few years - to disagree with the "Left" in here is equated to trolling.



And I only lean conservative in my personal life. I genuinely hate politics. But I despise the media even more. They find isolated stories like this - jump to conclusions - get everyone riled up - only to find out later the events didn't actually fit the "the script."


"The Media" did this?

I think this script exists only in your head. This isn't about saintly blacks and racist cops. It's about the fact that black people have to deal with things that are evidently unimaginable to white people. That there are different standards of justice in this country. And that both Brown and Martin would be alive today if they were white -- because the cops or asshole Rambo neighborhood watch domestic violence purveyors would have treated them differently from the start.

This isn't to say that they are angels or absolved from doing stupid, illegal things. It's that there's a working assumption in place that's entire based in race that occasionally results in death.


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Old 08-18-2014, 12:48 AM   #118
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Sorry. Don't mean to add to the like on. I can appreciate that peole may feel outnumbered in here.


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Old 08-18-2014, 01:05 AM   #119
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The problem is this: you're wrong and you've always been wrong. American liberals DEFINITIVELY have a more realistic view of race relations in this country than moderates or conservatives. Period.
Your politically leanings don't make you an inherently better person.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:11 AM   #120
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I didn't say that they do, so...?
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