Racist Police Response to Ferguson Protests

[BVS]

Beyond that - it will be difficult to prove that Michael was surrendering or charging.

Not really. If all three autopsies agree about the bullet entry in the brow, it will be very difficult to prove he was "charging" due to his height.



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[AEON]

Amid angry condemnations of the police and pledges to move away from the mean streets of Ferguson, one man describes what he saw as he witnessed the shooting. He seems to describe how the 6 foot, 4 inch, 300-pound Brown tussled with Police Officer Darren Wilson and charged him, an account that may corroborate Wilson's story and cast doubt on claims of other purported witnesses who say Wilson shot Brown as he ran away, his hands in the air.

"I mean, the police was in the truck [sic] and he was, like, over the truck," the man says. "So then he ran, police got out and ran after him.

“The next thing I know, he comes back towards them. The police had his guns drawn on him."

YouTube video captures purported witness backing police version in Ferguson shooting | Fox News

 

[AEON]

We need to get beyond cartoonish understandings of racism and start to understand how race permeates everything,

Do you consider yourself a racist?

 

[mikal]

Fox News

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[AEON]

Mikal,

I originally heard about it here:

LiveLeak.com - Michael Brown Eye Witness Crime Scene Video, FULL : videos

It is certainly not definitive, but it does indicate there are multiple versions of the shooting.

On CNN this morning a witness just claimed Michael Brown was shot several times from behind while the officer was in pursuit.

 

[Irvine511]

Do you consider yourself a racist?

I consider myself racially aware.


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[AEON]

I consider myself racially aware.


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I'm not sure I know what that means and how it is different from being a racist. Is locking your car door a black neighborhood racially aware or racist?

 

[Diemen]

Aeon, I think you're stretching just as much as those you're disagreeing with when you make the connection from shoving a clerk out of the way to grabbing a police officer's gun. It makes your charge of people being hasty in their assumptions just a bit compromised when you think a kid who shoplifts and then pushes a clerk out of his way would totally, obviously also charge a cop and try and get his gun, despite the completely different authority and power dynamics between the two situations.

It also really bothers me that you've given to labeling Brown as a "thug."

 

[Diemen]

This video is inconclusive, but it certainly could be interpreted as Michael Brown at the register paying for something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew

A few interpretations are that maybe Brown attempted to buy the cigarellos, but then the clerk refused because Brown was underage?

It certainly puts Brown's "strong-arm robbery" into a different light.

 

[AEON]

It also really bothers me that you've given to labeling Brown as a "thug."

'GENTLE GIANT': Mike Brown’s VERY Explicit Rap Songs Praising Drugs, Drinking, Ho's & Murder | Clash Daily

 

[Diemen]

Oh, so because he has a rap song (you do know that there are a lot of rap songs written by people who have never committed a violent crime, right? You do know that hyperbolic braggadocio is common in rap, right? You do know that singing a song about something is different than actually doing it, right?), he's automatically a thug? And you're trying to argue that this isn't about race??

Seriously, Aeon, this is really unbecoming of you.

 

[mikal]

I don't blame rap. I bet he played some violent video games........with black people in them.


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[AEON]

Oh, so because he has a rap song (you do know that there are a lot of rap songs written by people who have never committed a violent crime, right? You do know that hyperbolic braggadocio is common in rap, right? You do know that singing a song about something is different than actually doing it, right?), he's automatically a thug? And you're trying to argue that this isn't about race??

Seriously, Aeon, this is really unbecoming of you.

And if we discovered the officer sang in a Neo-Nazi Thrash Metal band that wouldn't impact your assessment?

 

[bono_212]

'GENTLE GIANT': Mike Brown’s VERY Explicit Rap Songs Praising Drugs, Drinking, Ho's & Murder | Clash Daily

Oooh Aeon, Let's do something differently, It doesn't have to be this way

 

[AEON]

And you're trying to argue that this isn't about race??

I'm not quite sure I made that claim because "this" also includes the protests, riots, and police overreaction - which certainly includes racial tension.

In regards to Michael Brown - he wasn't just rapping about the thug life, he was living it just minutes prior to his shooting (even his friend admitted Michael committed a strong-armed robbery - a felony - minutes prior to the shooting, if you don't accept the surveillance videos as proof).

Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery

There is now a breaking story on CNN that someone inside the investigation team just leaked that the forensics match officer Darren Wilson's story. Again - this does not prove anything other than things are not so cut and dry as many here want to make it appear.

 

[BoMac]

I love rap and hip-hop, have done drugs in the past, have stolen items in my youth, got into fistfights, and was friends with gang members because I grew up in a poorer neighbourhood.

Yet no one ever called me a thug. I was going through a "phase" according to many people who talked to me.

Why is that?

 

[AEON]

I'll believe the eyewitnesses, thanks.

I'll believe the science...

Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts - Scientific American

 

[BVS]

'GENTLE GIANT': Mike Brown’s VERY Explicit Rap Songs Praising Drugs, Drinking, Ho's & Murder | Clash Daily

Oh for fuck sake. Seriously? I'm guessing you don't know a lot of American teenagers.

Like I said, bending over backwards.


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[corianderstem]

I understand that eyewitness accounts are unreliable, but the police response from immediately after the shooting (is it common to leave a shooting victim in the street without calling an ambulance?), through today has given me absolutely no confidence in their own ability to construct a narrative of what actually happened.

So now, I'm not buying what they're selling.

 

[AEON]

I love rap and hip-hop, have done drugs in the past, have stolen items in my youth, got into fistfights, and was friends with gang members because I grew up in a poorer neighbourhood.

Yet no one ever called me a thug. I was going through a "phase" according to many people who talked to me.

Why is that?

If you were white, you were probably called a "punk" for doing these things. And the more you lived the life - the less credibility you would have when you said, "but I didn't do it." That is why reputation does matter when considering things like this. It's not everything, but it is a factor. If we found out Michael Brown was shot walking home from church choir practice or feeding the homeless - then there would be some different reactions.

And, to be clear, I do not think someone deserves to be shot for stealing cigars or rapping about the glorious thug life. However, IF the officer's story is proven true by the science of the case - then Michael Brown unfortunately made some very poor decisions during the last 15 minutes of his life, the very life he glamorized in his songs.

I'm an ordinary looking white guy - and if I punched and pushed a local cop of any race and fought for his gun - then charged at him after that - then I would expect death by bullets. And I'm not 6'4" and 300 lbs.

 

[Diemen]

In regards to Michael Brown - he wasn't just rapping about the thug life, he was living it just minutes prior to his shooting.

Really?. Living the thug life by stealing some cigars and pushing a clerk out of the way?

Again - this does not prove anything other than things are not so cut and dry as many here want to make it appear.

Your version certainly seems cut and dried.

 

[AEON]

Oh for fuck sake. Seriously? I'm guessing you don't know a lot of American teenagers.




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I was listening to War, Unforgettable Fire, and Joshua Tree in my teens...

 

[AEON]

Really?

Meanwhile, your cut and dried version appears to be: Michael Brown, a thug, got what was coming to him, because, as the thug he so obviously was, he left the officer no other choice.

Assaulting the officer, fighting for the gun, charging the officer while ordered to freeze - these are the things that would leave the officer no other choice. Everything else about Michael Brown's character makes that side of the story more plausible (but not true).

On the flip side - if we found out Darren William was into Hate Metal, well - that would also say something about him and may lead us to think he used a small legal window in order to unleash his hatred.

 

[Diemen]

It's not everything, but it is a factor. If we found out Michael Brown was shot walking home from church choir practice or feeding the homeless - then there would be some different reactions.

Because "thugs" can't also be good people who do these things?

And, to be clear, I do not think someone deserves to be shot for stealing cigars or rapping about the glorious thug life.

Then why bring it up?

 

[anitram]

This sounds like the argument that dressing provocatively and sleeping around leads to contributory negligence re: rape.

 

[BVS]

I was listening to War, Unforgettable Fire, and Joshua Tree in my teens...

What did Bin Laden grow up listening to?


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[AEON]

What did Bin Laden grow up listening to?


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Bee Gees

 

[AEON]

Then why bring it up?

As I said above - it makes the officer's side of the story more plausible.

 

[BoMac]

If you were white, you were probably called a "punk" for doing these things. And the more you lived the life - the less credibility you would have when you said, "but I didn't do it." That is why reputation does matter when considering things like this. It's not everything, but it is a factor. If we found out Michael Brown was shot walking home from church choir practice or feeding the homeless - then there would be some different reactions.

And, to be clear, I do not think someone deserves to be shot for stealing cigars or rapping about the glorious thug life. However, IF the officer's story is proven true by the science of the case - then Michael Brown unfortunately made some very poor decisions during the last 15 minutes of his life, the very life he glamorized in his songs.

I'm an ordinary looking white guy - and if I punched and pushed a local cop of any race and fought for his gun - then charged at him after that - then I would expect death by bullets. And I'm not 6'4" and 300 lbs.

If Brown was white and was walking home from church choir practice and was shot and killed, you wouldn't be so quick to accept that he lunged at and scuffled with the police officer because he wasn't in to "thug" life.

 

[AEON]

If Brown was white and was walking home from church choir practice and was shot and killed, you wouldn't be so quick to accept that he lunged at and scuffled with the police officer because he wasn't in to "thug" life.

If Brown was ANY COLOR and was walking home from church choir practice and was shot and killed, I wouldn't be so quick to accept that he lunged at and scuffled with the police officer because he wasn't in to "thug/punk" life.