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Old 04-28-2015, 12:48 PM   #796
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Ok, so where were the riots in 2014 when the article was written? If Freddie Gray was still alive that CVS would still be serving customers today. Police would be having a typical day in Baltimore.

you do understand that years of anger and resentment and poverty and police violence and lack of opportunity and shattered communities and bad schools and drugs and violence -- as detailed in the Baltimore Sun article i encourage you to read -- often come to a head after a specific, triggering incident?
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:56 PM   #797
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you do understand that years of anger and resentment and poverty and police violence and lack of opportunity and shattered communities and bad schools and drugs and violence -- as detailed in the Baltimore Sun article i encourage you to read -- often come to a head after a specific, triggering incident?
Life exists in a vacuum, Irvine, everyone knows that.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:58 PM   #798
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Life exists in a vacuum, Irvine, everyone knows that.

an obtuse one at that.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:28 PM   #799
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I never said anyone died, I said hundreds of peoples lives were at risk because of this mass violence.
I've never heard of a CVS store being burned down because of someone winning or losing a sporting event. Have you?
This violence was not happening 3 days ago or last week or last month. It started after the funeral of one man.
The focus naturally moves far away from single act of police brutality when an entire American city Is under the threat of violence. Yes, the lives and welfare of all 620,000 Baltimore citizens is a greater priority.
I take it you've never heard of a tipping point?

Also, the entire population of Baltimore is under threat of violence from what amounted to about 100 violent protestors? No hyperbole there whatsoever.

The violence was a vast minority of the people. Over 10,000 peacefully protested in downtown Baltimore, and yet all the media is reporting is the 100 who were violent.

http://blackwestchester.com/2015/04/...protest-bmore/
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:37 PM   #800
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Really? What if 5, 10 or 15 people had died in the fire at CVS? This type of violence threatens the safety and security of a half a million people living in Baltimore. I'm sure you would feel differently if your place of work and home were trashed and burned to the ground.
No one died, no one was even hurt at the CVS. No one raped, no one murdered. The only murder was Freddie Gray, by the police of Baltimore, who have been brutalizing minority citizens for decades. So stop leaning your silly, white-as-shit argument on made-up scenarios and slippery slopes.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:37 PM   #801
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I take it you've never heard of a tipping point?

Also, the entire population of Baltimore is under threat of violence from what amounted to about 100 violent protestors? No hyperbole there whatsoever.

The violence was a vast minority of the people. Over 10,000 peacefully protested in downtown Baltimore, and yet all the media is reporting is the 100 who were violent.

10,000 Strong Peacefully Protest In Downtown Baltimore, Media Only Reports The Violence & Arrest of Dozens | BLACK WESTCHESTER
I think you're right. I grossly overstated the danger that was present. Its bad, but there has been much worse in the past. It might be a tipping point, but to me it just sounds more like a moment of opportunity for people to do certain things. Although schools have been cancelled most people are being encouraged to go about their daily routine.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:40 PM   #802
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People were sending out photos of city streets a couple of blocks from the burning CVS and it was literally just like a normal day. The CNN cameras were present only in the few blocks where property damage was occurring, because it's a much easier story for them to report that way. It lets Miguel Marquez condescend to people live on a Baltimore street for an hour.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:04 PM   #803
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I think you're right. I grossly overstated the danger that was present. Its bad, but there has been much worse in the past. It might be a tipping point, but to me it just sounds more like a moment of opportunity for people to do certain things. Although schools have been cancelled most people are being encouraged to go about their daily routine.
Like when the police took a moment of opportunity to brutilize another human being when they could do so unobserved?
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:18 PM   #804
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I take it you've never heard of a tipping point?

Also, the entire population of Baltimore is under threat of violence from what amounted to about 100 violent protestors? No hyperbole there whatsoever.

The violence was a vast minority of the people. Over 10,000 peacefully protested in downtown Baltimore, and yet all the media is reporting is the 100 who were violent.

10,000 Strong Peacefully Protest In Downtown Baltimore, Media Only Reports The Violence & Arrest of Dozens | BLACK WESTCHESTER
Figures how skewed the media is reporting this. All we've heard here was about the violent protests.

I'm glad to hear it's not quite like that in reality, but it's a shame the mass media are jumping on the small minority that's ruining things for the majority here.

So what do you guys think should be done now? Since it doesn't seem like this is an easy to fix situation. Replacing the heads of the police departments or firing racist cops doesn't quite solve the deeper lying issues. It could be a start though..
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:44 PM   #805
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So what do you guys think should be done now? Since it doesn't seem like this is an easy to fix situation. Replacing the heads of the police departments or firing racist cops doesn't quite solve the deeper lying issues. It could be a start though..

it's interesting -- what's amazing to me about social media and a smartphone in the hand of nearly every citizen is how these issues that we once heard about but which were easily swept under the rug are now impossible to ignore.

even the murder of Gray would have probably been a local issue if not for the footage of him being dragged by police -- obviously unable to move his legs in the video -- from the sidewalk into a van.

it's much more visceral now, and hopefully, it lets the masses know that poor minority communities aren't making this stuff up. it DOES happen. and in some ways, once you really see it, it drives it home in a way that reading about it really doesn't. and it also helps you understand exactly why the police aren't trusted in these communities, and it's a complex problem that goes back decades upon decades. and it's complex, every city is different, every community is different, and every police force is different.

one practical solution is body cams on law enforcement. in theory, only bad cops should fear this, and it can also help exonerate good cops in bad situations. a more complex solution has to do with police-community interactions, and rebuilding trust that has eroded, if it was ever there at all. it may mean recruiting members of said community to be part of the police force. it can mean the police working with churches and schools and rec centers. it also means reducing crime through means other than law and order -- universal health care is a good step, so is not locking people up for minor drug crimes. reducing the number of children born to teenagers and/or out of wedlock is also good. opportunity, mixed-income housing, etc.

what's also important to remember is that people living in these areas are just that -- people. even though the vast majority of violent crime in the US happens in small pockets of cities, most of the people in these small pockets are just trying to live their lives and don't like the drug dealers on the corner any more than you do. and we also have to understand that suspicion of the police is rooted in reality. one of the more interesting conversations i've ever had was with a co-worker of mine. she grew up in Los Angeles, and in communities that were always highly distrustful of law enforcement because of the experiences her family members had had with the LAPD in the 1980s. while i grew up irritated at suburban cops who would lie in wait to bust you for going 10mph over the speed limit, she grew up worried that getting pulled over would automatically mean getting arrested, or cuffed, or worse. she remembered how in her high school everyone cheered when OJ was found not guilty not because anyone actually thought he was not guilty, but because a black man had beaten the LAPD. such was the historical resentment.

i'm thankful that these are discussions that are now being had -- i don't think a lot of this was possible to such an extent before social media.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:48 PM   #806
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Like when the police took a moment of opportunity to brutilize another human being when they could do so unobserved?
If that is indeed what happened, yes.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:00 PM   #807
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Wolf's argument represents the small part of me that considers riots to be an excuse for testosterone-addled shitheads to be themselves for a day. This can be the case (aforementioned sports rioting) but it doesn't apply here, not to the degree that it offsets the potential benefit of giving widespread exposure to this REALLY FUCKING DISGUSTING instance of police brutality.

My feelings on this are, uh, complicated.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:02 PM   #808
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:06 PM   #809
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Ok, so where were the riots in 2014 when the article was written? If Freddie Gray was still alive that CVS would still be serving customers today. Police would be having a typical day in Baltimore.
I may have only been a teenager when the '92 LA Riots happened, but I still remember them vividly. Yes, it was the Rodney King verdict that lit the fuse, but the fuel had built up over many, many years. It's the same thing in Baltimore. The murder of Freddie Gray was just final straw.

The big picture is even more chilling. Michael Brown, Eric Harris, Walter Scott, Freddie Gray are just the tip of the iceberg. I will never truly understand what it's like to be afraid of the police, as a latina woman, but there is something very wrong. The rise of cell phone cameras has helped, and I believe body cameras used properly will also be a good thing.

Irvine is right that there also needs to be major overhaul of the relationship between law enforcement and the communities they serve. Here in LA, most LAPD don't even live within city limits, let alone in the neighborhood they patrol. Community based policing is ideal, but how do we even implement it at this point?

Again, my heart breaks for the victims of police brutality and the citizens of Baltimore.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:26 PM   #810
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I think community based residency makes sense for some employment, like pastors.

People live where they can afford to live. I don't believe Beverly Hills police live in that city.

I think a 10- 15 mile radius might be more realistic.
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