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Old 08-19-2014, 10:51 AM   #256
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Well, it certainly was a pleasant surprise to see my suitability as a mod being publicly debated this morning.

Aeon, mods have always actively participated in FYM. I will be the first to freely admit that I have plenty of room for improvement, however, moderators are allowed to have a point of view. I will also say that I'm surprised that you find it hard to make the distinction between things I post as a member of this forum and things I post as a moderator of this forum. I will agree that I sometimes become too active in hot topics, and I'll try to temper my participation a bit, especially if the community at large is already responding to what I would respond to.

As far as my comments in this thread, yes it is true that I've pushed back against your point of view fairly firmly. I apologize if you took that as me trying to silence you - that certainly wasn't my intention. My intention was to get you to explain your position more thoroughly. In my view, trying to get members to explain their positions better is a perfectly acceptable role for a moderator. And you have gone on to explain your position more thoroughly, which I think improves the quality of the debate, and makes it less soundbitey and more substantive.

For example, when you started describing Mike Brown as a "thug," a term that I think we can all agree is racially tinged and inflammatory, and then doubled down on it when I voiced my concern for your usage of it, my view is you deserved push back for that, and should be expected to explain yourself. Which you did, and I think you stated pretty eloquently that what people put out there as a representation of themselves should be accessible to form an opinion of their character - which is a perfectly valid position. BUT, and I hope you appreciate this distinction - while I might not agree with your interpretation of Mike Brown's character, your more in depth explanation is a lot more useful to this debate, and a lot less inflammatory than just going around calling him a thug. So I feel that my pushback (and the pushback of others) is useful in moving the debate to a more considered space, and honestly, I would feel lax in my duty as a moderator if I didn't push back against that. Clearly that is where you and I differ.

As for the other conservative voices that no longer feel welcome, that is unfortunate. It's true that FYM isn't as active as it used to be. Some of that can be attributed to my moderation, for sure. I'm aware that I'm not perfectly neutral. Some of that can be attributed to the fact that a lot of the topics in FYM have been debated so much that they've kind of become settled in this community, or at least people are less eager to rehash the same old points over and over. Some of that can be attributed to it being a lull in between election cycles. Some of it can be attributed to people being in a different place in their lives and not spending as much time here. Certainly the case for me - in the 14 years (yikes!) I've been here I've gone from being a college student living in the dorms with plenty of time to kill to a small business owner with a wife and a home and wishes to start a family. And some of it can be attributed to the fact that some of the conservative voices that are no longer with us chose to go down a route that put them at odds with the rules of this forum. I certainly don't think it all comes down to me.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:20 AM   #257
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Racist Police Response to Ferguson Protests

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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
There's that - and a lot of extremism (which is concerning). My point is that the comments vary wildly.



I don't think we need that much craziness here, but a little more variety would probably be more thought provoking. Believe it or not - there are intelligent conservative/centrists out there...



Of course - if the Liberals here love things the way they are, why would they change anything? They will (already have) argue there's no need to change anything. However, if you want to hear some different points of view and genuinely engage with people with a different world view than your own - then changing the role of the mods or adding a conservative and centrist mod might be a good way to get that going.

I would definitely welcome different views. But the problem is not the mods.

The issues this forum has had in the past are

1. We've had many that are very passionate about their views but cannot articulate their reasoning beyond; it's icky, guns are fun, or because Glenn Beck said

2. Then we've had a lot of extremist or ideologues, it's hard to have a discussion with someone when they start with Ayers, you don't believe in American Exceptionalism, or scientist are socialists.

3. And then there are those that are fairly reasonable until they feel outnumbered and result to playing victim and calling names. Now I understand this one is a grey area, I realize sometimes being outnumbered can feel like "ganging up", and I do know there were times when those concerns were legitimate.

4. And then we have those special folks who keep coming in under new alters every few months, pretending like it's not them but then eventually saying the same things almost verbatim.

We've definitely had some strong very well liked conservative posters that honestly I'd like to see back, but some were short lived and others life got in the way.


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Old 08-19-2014, 11:30 AM   #258
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I guess I am a bit confused by the string of replies here.

Unless you (AEON or anyone else) feel like the current moderator actively stifles discussion, warns or bans people who don't share his views or otherwise imposes repercussions on them, what would be the purpose of a second moderator?

I also partly feel like there is no real moderator needed, we are all adults and can settle matters like adults but I know that is likely a minority view.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:35 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post


My intention was to get you to explain your position more thoroughly. In my view, trying to get members to explain their positions better is a perfectly acceptable role for a moderator.
Agreed - that is a valid moderator role. And I also think liberal points should be equally scrutinized/flushed out as well. It's as if liberalism is inherently true in FYM, while conservative/centrist posts need hyper-defending (while also withstanding the usual charge of "trolling" and "bigotry"). It seems to you - and most here - that the people who do not agree with the liberals simply have not "seen the light" quite yet.

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And you have gone on to explain your position more thoroughly, which I think improves the quality of the debate, and makes it less soundbitey and more substantive.
Perhaps then it would be helpful if you acknowledged that more often when it occurs.

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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
For example, when you started describing Mike Brown as a "thug," a term that I think we can all agree is racially tinged and inflammatory, and then doubled down on it when I voiced my concern for your usage of it, my view is you deserved push back for that, and should be expected to explain yourself. Which you did, and I think you stated pretty eloquently that what people put out there as a representation of themselves should be accessible to form an opinion of their character - which is a perfectly valid position.
Again, unless I missed it - acknowledging that more often and in close proximity to the post would be very helpful. I am not looking for agreement, but a little acknowledgement for taking a perfect valid position would go a long way toward inviting opposing views.

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BUT, and I hope you appreciate this distinction - while I might not agree with your interpretation of Mike Brown's character, your more in depth explanation is a lot more useful to this debate, and a lot less inflammatory than just going around calling him a thug.
That's fine. I thought the term "thug" was a more specific term (like "gangsta"). However, pointing out his own music page, tweets, fb posts, photos - is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I am not a racist for doing so. Nor would it be racist for someone to point to the same type of information by Darren Wilson. It was/is relevant to the discussion.

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So I feel that my pushback (and the pushback of others) is useful in moving the debate to a more considered space, and honestly, I would feel lax in my duty as a moderator if I didn't push back against that. Clearly that is where you and I differ.
No - we differ in that you seem to have a different requirement for "moving the debate" for liberals than for non-liberals and assert your own politics too often (my opinion). If you were a user, I'm all for it. But when you wear both hats interchangeably - I feel like I'm a playing an away baseball game against the opposing team AND the umpires. Does that make sense? That's why I think that adding conservative/centrist mods may be a solution if we allow mods to join the debate.

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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
As for the other conservative voices that no longer feel welcome, that is unfortunate. It's true that FYM isn't as active as it used to be. Some of that can be attributed to my moderation, for sure. I'm aware that I'm not perfectly neutral. Some of that can be attributed to the fact that a lot of the topics in FYM have been debated so much that they've kind of become settled in this community, or at least people are less eager to rehash the same old points over and over. Some of that can be attributed to it being a lull in between election cycles. Some of it can be attributed to people being in a different place in their lives and not spending as much time here. Certainly the case for me - in the 14 years (yikes!) I've been here I've gone from being a college student living in the dorms with plenty of time to kill to a small business owner with a wife and a home and wishes to start a family. And some of it can be attributed to the fact that some of the conservative voices that are no longer with us chose to go down a route that put them at odds with the rules of this forum. I certainly don't think it all comes down to me.
I agree - and it was not my intent to put the entire blame of the withering away of FYM on you, only part of it Yes, you have come to my defense more than a few times - and I do appreciate that. But we non-liberals would also like a little credit from time to time when we have fully answered a challenging question (even if the conclusion is not agreed upon) and made a valid/challenging point. Also, a little love would be nice when we do in fact change our position during the course of a thread (as it would be a total shock to see a liberal here change their mind on something mid-thread).

I would also like to see this notion that liberalism is automatically "right" attitude challenged by the mods/you more often. There is no way on this earth that one side of a controversial topic is ALWAYS right on every point. Take this shooting as an example - if it turns out the forensics and numerous eyewitnesses PROVE Darren Wilson's innocence (hypothetical at this point)- there would still be a prevailing attitude that Darren Wilson murdered an innocent black teen. And there will be no call from the mods for the facts to justify such a position. Yet - I've conceded, that if the forensics prove that Darren Wilson overreacted/murdered Michael Johnson, he should be punished accordingly.

Diemen, all that being said - I do appreciate you and the volunteer work you do here. Thank you. These are just some of my opinions - take them for what they are worth. I think I've proven myself to be a man that can change his mind - and if I am completely off-base here, I can probably be convinced as such.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:53 AM   #260
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The problem is this: you're wrong and you've always been wrong. American liberals DEFINITIVELY have a more realistic view of race relations in this country than moderates or conservatives. Period. End of fucking story. This isn't liberals co-opting a tragedy. This is liberals being proven right about institutionalized racism in this country.
Diemen, if a non-liberal had posted something such as this, I imagine you would have challenged it (and rightly so).

Perhaps I missed your challenge in the thread, I could not find it (sorry in advance if I am mistaken).
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:01 PM   #261
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I think I missed the part of the forum rules where it says that moderators are required to be perfectly neutral arbiters and aren't allowed to have or express their own views.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:06 PM   #262
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Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop's version of events in shooting #Ferguson
Christine Byers is a crime reporter for the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/...56693382094848

If this thing goes to trial - it might get ugly.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:17 PM   #263
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Christine Byers is a crime reporter for the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

https://twitter.com/ChristineDByers/...56693382094848

If this thing goes to trial - it might get ugly.
I found this response funny:



Quote:
In breaking news, police say police are right.

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Old 08-19-2014, 12:22 PM   #264
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I found this response funny:

I actually laughed at that one too. And there's some truth to it.

But there is also some truth to the notion that if a Ferguson eyewitness DID have information that would benefit the officer's story, then they would be afraid to have their face plastered on CNN (especially with "Snitches Get Stitches" spray painted on the building next to them).
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:29 PM   #265
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I'm still a confessed homophobe
That clarifies things re. your position on racial issues too. Good to know.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:31 PM   #266
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That clarifies things re. your position on racial issues too. Good to know.
What are my positions on racial issues?
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:37 PM   #267
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What are my positions on racial issues?
The fact that you really believe your comments in this thread are not about race is a rather perfect summation of your position on racial issues.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:41 PM   #268
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Oh, and clearly, listening to hip hop makes one a "thug", but disliking homossexuals somehow is ok? And yet, the problem with this forum is the lack of a right wing moderator?
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:05 PM   #269
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Oh, and clearly, listening to hip hop makes one a "thug",
Please find the quote where I said that.

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but disliking homossexuals somehow is ok?
My "homophobia" is limited to my inability to understand it. This lack of understanding does not mean that I "dislike" homosexuals - nor do I think they should be mistreated in any way.

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And yet, the problem with this forum is the lack of a right wing moderator?
Yes - and a centrist.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:06 PM   #270
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The fact that you really believe your comments in this thread are not about race is a rather perfect summation of your position on racial issues.
Please clarify.
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