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Old 08-20-2014, 05:41 AM   #76
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You do have Geert Wilders though.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:13 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Galeongirl View Post
I think this is pretty much spot on. I've stayed out of this convo for a while as I don't know the details, it's hardly on the news here (though did get some coverage in the newspaper), so I can't really say much.
But it strikes me as odd that in the US, there seems to be such a focus on the race part, it's just odd. Now I won't say there's no racism in the Netherlands at all, but I don't think we've had riots like that here, nor the portrayal on the news that seems to put black people in a more negative light. I reckon most don't really care where people come from, if they break the law, they break the law. Then again, we hardly ever shoot people so I guess that prevents that debate here.
It just seems so different in the US, when you see the news shows (we have CNN here), read the papers.. it's almost like there is an obsession with race. Whether it's white people being racist, or black people claiming they can't be racist because they're black, there's always something. For instance, I've never understood why a black person is supposed to be called an African American. What if he's not from Africa, but born in the US or anywhere else in the world? It makes no sense!
Where does this difference in perception of the US versus say, Europe come from? Historically, there were slaves all over the world, also in the Netherlands and other parts of Europe.. so we share that. Where did it differ?
I've always thought Europeans seemed to handle the issue of race relations much better than the U.S.

Your post confirms this to me.

More to comment your post but...
I'm short on time so I will say this and
back later.

I taught 7th grade language arts in a public school.

Every year we would read the novel Across Five Aprils by Irene Hunt.
It's a story set during the American Civil War.

During my introduction of the book to the class I would ask
them to raise their hands if they might have ancestors who were
slaves.

All the black students would immediately raise their hands.

I would wait about a minute and then raise my hand.

Instantly I would get a puzzled response from students?

That's not true. You are white.

This would lead into an interesting discussion on the worldwide
history of slavery (in all races of people) and it's continued practice in some parts of
the world today.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:34 AM   #78
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During my introduction of the book to the class I would ask

them to raise their hands if they might have ancestors who were

slaves.



All the black students would immediately raise their hands.



I would wait about a minute and then raise my hand.



I know I've asked you this before but maybe you missed it, but to what government and how many generations back have you traced your family's slavery?


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Old 08-20-2014, 08:47 AM   #79
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:44 AM   #80
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I know I've asked you this before but maybe you missed it, but to what government and how many generations back have you traced your family's slavery?


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Did you even read my post?

The question to the students was.... "might have ancestors who were slaves."

My point was to discuss how slavery has been practice by virtually all cultures and societies at one time or another throughout history.

So, yes. I think all of us could raise our hands.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:51 AM   #81
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Did your students understand the point you were trying to make?

Actually,
what is the point that you're trying to make?
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:53 AM   #82
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Racism: glorified hyperbole in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Did you even read my post?



The question to the students was.... "might have ancestors who were slaves."



My point was to discuss how slavery has been practice by virtually all cultures and societies at one time or another throughout history.



So, yes. I think all of us could raise our hands.

You don't think it diminishes the impact slavery has on this country. If you even had slavery in your ancestry, it's so far removed that you are not affected. A black person in the US only needs to go back a few generations and know that it was still under this constitution, this country, there are still people in the south that try and defend the south's view, and that segregation was only a few decades ago. That all still has affect. It's fine to talk about the fact that the US is not the only country to have slavery, but what you're doing is completely irresponsible and historically inaccurate.


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Old 08-20-2014, 10:05 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Galeongirl View Post
I think this is pretty much spot on. I've stayed out of this convo for a while as I don't know the details, it's hardly on the news here (though did get some coverage in the newspaper), so I can't really say much.
But it strikes me as odd that in the US, there seems to be such a focus on the race part, it's just odd. Now I won't say there's no racism in the Netherlands at all, but I don't think we've had riots like that here, nor the portrayal on the news that seems to put black people in a more negative light. I reckon most don't really care where people come from, if they break the law, they break the law. Then again, we hardly ever shoot people so I guess that prevents that debate here.
It just seems so different in the US, when you see the news shows (we have CNN here), read the papers.. it's almost like there is an obsession with race. Whether it's white people being racist, or black people claiming they can't be racist because they're black, there's always something. For instance, I've never understood why a black person is supposed to be called an African American. What if he's not from Africa, but born in the US or anywhere else in the world? It makes no sense!
Where does this difference in perception of the US versus say, Europe come from? Historically, there were slaves all over the world, also in the Netherlands and other parts of Europe.. so we share that. Where did it differ?
Geert Wilders, though?
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:14 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Did you even read my post?

The question to the students was.... "might have ancestors who were slaves."

My point was to discuss how slavery has been practice by virtually all cultures and societies at one time or another throughout history.

So, yes. I think all of us could raise our hands.
This remains one of the stupidest points I have ever heard made. It is beyond being disingenuous. Race was never an issue in slavery say with the Romans, it did not target a specific group of people and it was also of a much different form. There is no equivalence to the mass industrial capture and enslavement in the Atlantic Slave Trade, that has lasting repercussions til this day.

It boggles the mind how people can think that treating Black people as little more than animals for 400 years can be resolved in 50.


I wouldn't crow about race relations in Europe either, the problems aren't just necessarily close to the surface. You only need to look into some quite recent troubles in France with African populations to see it isn't all cosy, or the comments made by Italian government ministers about Black people that you would never here a US politician make and actually survive on in their jobs.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:29 AM   #85
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I wouldn't crow about race relations in Europe either, the problems aren't just necessarily close to the surface. You only need to look into some quite recent troubles in France with African populations to see it isn't all cosy, or the comments made by Italian government ministers about Black people that you would never here a US politician make and actually survive on in their jobs.
Not to mention what looks to be a growing Neo-Nazi movement in Germany and parts of north Europe.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:36 AM   #86
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Did your students understand the point you were trying to make?

Actually,
what is the point that you're trying to make?
I'd like this answered too.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:39 AM   #87
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EDIT: Diemen addressed my concern - thank you, Diemen.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:41 AM   #88
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This remains one of the stupidest points I have ever heard made.
Your post would have been much better had you just omitted this sentence.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:43 AM   #89
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It boggles the mind how people can think that treating Black people as little more than animals for 400 years can be resolved in 50.
Are you referring to the end of American slavery? It's been about 150 years since the end of the Civil War.

speaking of the Civil War - I'm so proud of my great-great grandfather who fought for the Union in a Kentucky (border state) Infantry Regiment.

EDIT: I'm not suggesting 150 years is enough time to undo the injustice of slavery. I just wanted to clarify that American slavery ended about 150 years ago.
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Old 08-20-2014, 10:43 AM   #90
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Did you even read my post?

The question to the students was.... "might have ancestors who were slaves."

My point was to discuss how slavery has been practice by virtually all cultures and societies at one time or another throughout history.

So, yes. I think all of us could raise our hands.
IH, do you think that your family history of slavery affects your life today in the same way that an African American's family history of slavery affects theirs?
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