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Old 08-15-2016, 01:27 AM   #586
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God. those Milwaukee protests are something else. Now the cops should just do nothing when someone has a gun and refuses to comply?

Meanwhile, the victim's father blames his son's actions on poor role models including himself while his sisters have denounced these "acting out" displays that the protests have become. If the families of this now deceased man get it, why can't so many others?

I'm starting to think the problem is really a class situation where Black Lives Matter means something to many upper and middle class blacks who have at some point in there lives been victimized by some sort of social and/or institutional racism. But those on the low-end of the scale really care less and just want to torch cars, etc. And the problem is that most of the unarmed black men shot by police (and basically all of the armed ones) are from that low rung of the ladder and are almost singlehandedly responsible for perpetuating the myth of the criminal black man because of the insanely high crime rate within their sub-group...

And that's exactly why we should differentiate between the many true victims of police brutality and these repeat offenders.

That now deceased criminal leaves behind two children into a world of poverty where they will grow up without a father (and know that he was a terrible human being), blame the white establishment for his death. And the cycle continues.
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Old 08-15-2016, 09:06 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
And the problem is that most of the unarmed black men shot by police (and basically all of the armed ones) are from that low rung of the ladder and are almost singlehandedly responsible for perpetuating the myth of the criminal black man because of the insanely high crime rate within their sub-group...
That's the problem? That they're from the wrong class?

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And that's exactly why we should differentiate between the many true victims of police brutality and these repeat offenders.
So the "low-class" police shooting victims aren't "true victims" because they had a criminal history?

Stay classy.
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Old 08-15-2016, 09:14 AM   #588
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Yeah, fuck poor people. That's the attitude we should be taking!
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Old 08-15-2016, 09:40 AM   #589
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You just gotta love those progressive, 'left' political views.
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:00 AM   #590
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#blacklivesmatterexceptlowestrungthugs
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:02 AM   #591
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You just gotta love those progressive, 'left' political views.

Far left progressive
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:36 AM   #592
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Sorry to interrupt what seems like the millionth BMP bashing session, but I think he does raise a legitimate question of whether there is now going to be rioting whenever police force is used in an African American community. Or are we operating under the assumption that such rioting is justified and socially productive regardless of the circumstances?
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Old 08-15-2016, 11:44 AM   #593
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There's no doubt in my mind that the media perpetuates this.

I just see that as "when two problems meet."
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Old 08-15-2016, 12:16 PM   #594
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Sorry to interrupt what seems like the millionth BMP bashing session, but I think he does raise a legitimate question of whether there is now going to be rioting whenever police force is used in an African American community. Or are we operating under the assumption that such rioting is justified and socially productive regardless of the circumstances?
It's a legitimate question, and I'm glad you're the one to ask it, because BMP, like he does with nearly everything, obfuscates a legitimate topic/point by ranting and raving like a lunatic about the aspects of it that don't matter.

I'm not sure what the answer is. My guess is that we're at the point now where the cops have been wrong so many times that they are no longer going to get the benefit of the doubt from the black community. That's not to say they have had it up until the last two years, but there's clearly a gameplan in place with BLM where they are protesting when police officers shoot black people. The only way it will change, in my view is when 1) these shootings happen less frequently and 2) we see a concerted effort by law enforcement to prosecute those who have abused their authority. Neither of those things have happened, so cases like this are going to be wrapped up in the fury from other cases where the outrage was justified.
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:05 PM   #595
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It's a legitimate question, and I'm glad you're the one to ask it, because BMP, like he does with nearly everything, obfuscates a legitimate topic/point by ranting and raving like a lunatic about the aspects of it that don't matter. .
This x1000

We make zero progress on major issues in this country becsuse the extreme ends of arguments cloud the debate with absurdities and ideological bias.
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:44 PM   #596
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2) we see a concerted effort by law enforcement to prosecute those who have abused their authority.
This is important IMO, as is more thorough training and more routine psychological evaluation for police. It's a conundrum, though, because those things are expensive and would divert funds from other social programs in areas of high need (education funding etc).

On a more philosophical note, I think there is a somewhat worrying trend of looking at these social issues in terms of moral absolutism for those in positions of power and moral relativism for the marginalized. That is, we make firm pronouncements about right or wrong for police officers, but for a minority rioter, for example, we want to look at their actions as entirely their own prerogative. IMO either these things are situational or they're not; it can't be one way for one group and another for a different one.
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:49 PM   #597
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I fucked up by not also implying that class represented an attitude as well rather than the economic security of the individual. In fact, it's probably the attitude of the individual that matters far more in general, but most of these people happen to be poor because those with money don't just hang around street corners for hours on end, steal cars, etc.

My line of "And that's exactly why we should differentiate between the many true victims of police brutality and these repeat offenders" was clearly misinterpreted. I'm referring to the difference being the guy that gets killed for no fucking reason and the idiot (usually life long criminal) who just refuses to comply and most of the time has a weapon. When defined that way, which is what I intended, I don't doubt that any of you would disagree with me that the Milwaukee situation really wasn't warranted. Guy has gun and refuses to back down, guy gets shot and killed by police. That's the only rational conclusion to that situation, and while it's certainly nothing to be proud of, the police obviously have no other option.

I agree that the media is fanning the flames. I don't think their reporting is slanted or that publicizing the movement is wrong whatsoever. I think the problem lies more with a 24/7, clickbait news media that gets people riled up before all the information happens to be in and wants this issue to generate a lot of heat. Outrage sells, so why not fan the flames? But on the other hand, we're talking about the fucking murder of civilians which is about as big a deal as it gets.
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Old 08-15-2016, 04:13 PM   #598
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I agree that the media is fanning the flames. I don't think their reporting is slanted or that publicizing the movement is wrong whatsoever. I think the problem lies more with a 24/7, clickbait news media that gets people riled up before all the information happens to be in and wants this issue to generate a lot of heat. Outrage sells, so why not fan the flames? But on the other hand, we're talking about the fucking murder of civilians which is about as big a deal as it gets.

I would consider the click bait to also be "the media." Social media, internet media, television media. It's not just exclusive to CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News. It's the collective "all media." Social media is just as bad when it comes to exacerbation.
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Old 08-15-2016, 05:25 PM   #599
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On a more philosophical note, I think there is a somewhat worrying trend of looking at these social issues in terms of moral absolutism for those in positions of power and moral relativism for the marginalized. That is, we make firm pronouncements about right or wrong for police officers, but for a minority rioter, for example, we want to look at their actions as entirely their own prerogative. IMO either these things are situational or they're not; it can't be one way for one group and another for a different one.
Wow, great comments
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:17 AM   #600
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I think we should be moving past the 'abuse of power' aspect of critiquing the police and perhaps looking into the function of the police force (and subsequently questioning that), which seems to be a rather taboo sort of subject.
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