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Old 08-01-2016, 05:46 PM   #541
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Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
No, because it's just fucking stupid. That woman has a way better chance of dying in a car crash or being murdered by a fellow black person (literally millions of times better chances).

Literally?

I know what you're getting at, but I think you're taking the wrong approach. And you shouldn't be criticizing the people for what you might view as an irrational fear.

You know, like perhaps a fear of flying. Or a fear of a shark attack. Im sure everyone has heard at least one of the stat facts about those irrational fears. You have more of a chance of dying in a car accident than a plane crash and it's not even close. You have more of a chance of dying from a coconut falling on your head than a shark attack. Or whatever that second one is.

Is the person to blame? Is it the media? Probably.

Or is it just that when you have something uncontrollable and you're vulnerable, it's particularly more scary? You know. Like, a fear police officers killing you is scary because they're supposed to do the opposite. It's irrational from a statistical perspective, but not people do have uncontrollable fears. If I can control my car and choose when to stop and how fast I go, it's a little bit safer "feeling" than being suspended 8 miles in the air hurling at 500 miles an hour.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:07 PM   #542
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No, because it's just fucking stupid. That woman has a way better chance of dying in a car crash or being murdered by a fellow black person (literally millions of times better chances). It's just completely irrational nonsense.

Now, having a problem with the police killings of blacks and the injustice that is going on is absolutely fine, warranted, and this shit needs to change immediately. But to act like they're liable to murder you at any freakin' moment even when it's got nothing to do with you is just a complete and utterly foolish reaction. It's equivalent to being scared of the neighborhood Muslim walking down the street.

There's probably ten times more blacks being murdered by other blacks in Chicago in a given year than police nationally killing unarmed blacks that weren't attempting to flee and/or fight back. So, to act like some officer rolling up and dealing with a car parked in the wrong place is potentially deadly means someone is letting things get way out of proportion in their own mind...

Why are you jumping to the conclusion that she feared the police would kill them? Talk about irrational.

For someone who tries to prove so hard he's intellectual superior because of the way you vote or because you don't believe in god, you fail miserably displaying it in posts like this.


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Old 08-01-2016, 06:31 PM   #543
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Racism: glorified hyperbole in America

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Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
No, because it's just fucking stupid. That woman has a way better chance of dying in a car crash or being murdered by a fellow black person (literally millions of times better chances). It's just completely irrational nonsense.

Now, having a problem with the police killings of blacks and the injustice that is going on is absolutely fine, warranted, and this shit needs to change immediately. But to act like they're liable to murder you at any freakin' moment even when it's got nothing to do with you is just a complete and utterly foolish reaction. It's equivalent to being scared of the neighborhood Muslim walking down the street.

There's probably ten times more blacks being murdered by other blacks in Chicago in a given year than police nationally killing unarmed blacks that weren't attempting to flee and/or fight back. So, to act like some officer rolling up and dealing with a car parked in the wrong place is potentially deadly means someone is letting things get way out of proportion in their own mind...

I'm sure the mother would appreciate being told her concerns are "fucking stupid." And yes, who said that she was afraid the police were going to kill her kids? That's your own leap of logic.

That that is your takeaway from this story, rather than even the slightest shred of empathy, and that you would double down on it rather than consider things from the young mother's perspective is telling.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:58 PM   #544
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You know, like perhaps a fear of flying. Or a fear of a shark attack. Im sure everyone has heard at least one of the stat facts about those irrational fears. You have more of a chance of dying in a car accident than a plane crash and it's not even close.
Exactly. I know the statistics about plane crashes, and yet the idea of flying still freaks me out. I've only ever done it once, and I'm not all that keen on doing it again unless I absolutely have to.

Same with mass shootings. Despite how often we seem to hear about them in the media nowadays, there's the statistics about violent crime in general going down and the statistics about one's likelihood of being caught up in one to indicate that I'll ultimately probably be all right in that regard.

Am I still terrified of the idea of finding myself in one someday regardless? Yep.

One of the key aspects of fear is that it's NOT very logical much of the time. People can find all sorts of reasons to be scared of something, regardless of how logical or not they may be. Talking of cops and interactions with the public, I know that women have been advised in recent years to wait until they get to semi-lighted or public areas before pulling over when a cop flags them down, because of a few incidents of creeps posing as cops or cops getting rather creepy with or outright assaulting women. If I were driving somewhere by myself, and a cop pulled me over for whatever reason, I would probably follow that advice, despite the fact that chances are good the cop wanting to pull me over is probably a decent, upstanding person who's just doing their job.

I will never have my race be an issue when it comes to dealing with cops. So I don't feel it's my place to judge those for whom it could be an issue for how they react in such situations.

(Heck, even if she wasn't concerned about the police themselves targeting her, I think it's just a logical thing for a mom to pull their kids away when a cop's in the area so that the kids don't get in the way of the cop trying to do their job, or to keep the kids safe in case the cop's attending to a situation that looks like it could potentially become violent on the criminal's end, or whatever. That's just basic parental safety at work.)
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:36 PM   #545
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Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
No, because it's just fucking stupid. That woman has a way better chance of dying in a car crash or being murdered by a fellow black person (literally millions of times better chances). It's just completely irrational nonsense.

Now, having a problem with the police killings of blacks and the injustice that is going on is absolutely fine, warranted, and this shit needs to change immediately. But to act like they're liable to murder you at any freakin' moment even when it's got nothing to do with you is just a complete and utterly foolish reaction. It's equivalent to being scared of the neighborhood Muslim walking down the street.

There's probably ten times more blacks being murdered by other blacks in Chicago in a given year than police nationally killing unarmed blacks that weren't attempting to flee and/or fight back. So, to act like some officer rolling up and dealing with a car parked in the wrong place is potentially deadly means someone is letting things get way out of proportion in their own mind...
A perceived lack of empathy, or a differing viewpoint on a hot-button issue, is not trolling.
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Old 08-01-2016, 07:40 PM   #546
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A perceived lack of empathy, or a differing viewpoint on a hot-button issue, is not trolling.

It is if it's done purposely to get a rise.


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Old 08-02-2016, 02:20 AM   #547
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Still, I don' t think it's quite as irrational as some of you thinking.

Remember that Afro-Americans have dealing with either racist and, or cops full of their power since the time they were forced to live in the Colonies, then States in The South, and too often in The North as well. Stories have been handed down, or passed on at the then current time and across the States via word of mouth, letters, phone calls, emails, and social media ( the communications of each time added along with new inventions).

Until the majority of white people started seeing the videos by bystanders, or the police cameras black people were way more often than not not believed.
And we're talking also while wearing a good suit and tie ( in particular) black men in their 30's and upwards, not just young men from poor neighborhoods or just dressing hip-hip style. Like "driving while black in the " wrong" neighborhood as one major set of encounters gone wrong by police.

You' ve got shame, injury and even death almost like DNA written into individual and collective memory and current of many, many black people.
(trojanchick, yeah, I know it happens to young Latino men ,too. And women of both groups- just less so)

While tangential-
Hell, I believe I once read that Supreme Court Justice C Thomas (who pulled up the ladder behind him ) has asked white colleagues to flag him down a cab in DC.
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Old 08-02-2016, 02:04 PM   #548
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Still, I don' t think it's quite as irrational as some of you thinking.

Remember that Afro-Americans have dealing with either racist and, or cops full of their power since the time they were forced to live in the Colonies, then States in The South, and too often in The North as well. Stories have been handed down, or passed on at the then current time and across the States via word of mouth, letters, phone calls, emails, and social media ( the communications of each time added along with new inventions).

Until the majority of white people started seeing the videos by bystanders, or the police cameras black people were way more often than not not believed.
And we're talking also while wearing a good suit and tie ( in particular) black men in their 30's and upwards, not just young men from poor neighborhoods or just dressing hip-hip style. Like "driving while black in the " wrong" neighborhood as one major set of encounters gone wrong by police.

You' ve got shame, injury and even death almost like DNA written into individual and collective memory and current of many, many black people.
(trojanchick, yeah, I know it happens to young Latino men ,too. And women of both groups- just less so)

While tangential-
Hell, I believe I once read that Supreme Court Justice C Thomas (who pulled up the ladder behind him ) has asked white colleagues to flag him down a cab in DC.
Seriously. There's nothing as cringeworthy as seeing someone who has never been in the position of a discriminated minority proclaim the emotional reaction of a black person with law enforcement as irrational.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:33 AM   #549
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Seriously. There's nothing as cringeworthy as seeing someone who has never been in the position of a discriminated minority proclaim the emotional reaction of a black person with law enforcement as irrational.

If I've never personally found myself in a specific situation, I am barred from exercising logic and drawing conclusions about said situation?

Many aspects of our day to day lives would come to a grinding halt if this idea were applied across the board.

I don't particularly like police, and I think it's quite common for them to rely too heavily on force. Additionally, I think there're two personality types that will find themselves naturally drawn to police work: those who truly do value law and order and wish to protect those around them, and those who value power. I think we're probably looking at something like a 60/40 split.

That said, I've completely lost patience with the narrative that police are sitting with their finger on the trigger every time a minority so much as walks by. I've seen innumerable people -- private citizens and public figures alike -- make claims such as,

"they're hunting black people!"
"It's a free for all!"
"You have to worry about your life any time the cops stop you"

This is absurd, and I can't help but suspect it's deliberately fanning flames of division. The stats back this up. There is no statistical argument to say otherwise. I don't overly care what people "feel" like on this issue -- we're past the point where that's helpful.

This isn't to say that there is no legitimate racial bias in some police work. There's plenty of statistical evidence to back up the idea that cops are much more likely to use low-level escalation of force on minorities than whites. We should have a conversation about this.

However, we can't have that conversation when the media is screaming that cops are deliberately killing any black person with a busted taillight, and conflating people like Michael Brown with people like Eric Gardner.

It's dishonest and morally unacceptable.


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Old 08-03-2016, 11:29 AM   #550
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This is absurd, and I can't help but suspect it's deliberately fanning flames of division. The stats back this up. There is no statistical argument to say otherwise. I don't overly care what people "feel" like on this issue -- we're past the point where that's helpful.
The stats back up a deliberate fanning of division? Please explain.

Also, I think it's just as grinding to dismiss how people "feel" than it is to say one can't speak of something if they've never experienced it.


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This isn't to say that there is no legitimate racial bias in some police work. There's plenty of statistical evidence to back up the idea that cops are much more likely to use low-level escalation of force on minorities than whites. We should have a conversation about this.

However, we can't have that conversation when the media is screaming that cops are deliberately killing any black person with a busted taillight
Who is screaming that cops are deliberately killing any black person with a busted taillight? I don't think that's ever been the issue.
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Old 08-03-2016, 02:23 PM   #551
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Keep in mind that being shot by a cop, isn't the only reason African-Americans are wary of law enforcement. They are routinely pulled over for no good reason and just hassled. I have friends who have had this happen. It is not irrational to be wary of a LEO when you see those things happen to people in your community all the time.

I agree, I think the majority of cops are good people, but there are a significant number who are assholes, and worse, racist assholes. They are protected by their fellow officers so who is a person of color to trust?
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:17 PM   #552
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Tim Scott (GOP senator from SC) says he's gotten pulled over multiple times since taking office. Imagine those cops' surprise


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Old 08-03-2016, 06:32 PM   #553
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Thoughtful post, Caleb8844
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Old 08-03-2016, 07:34 PM   #554
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Wait, so now we think that fear has to be rational in order to be legitimate?

What the hell...
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:15 PM   #555
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Wait, so now we think that fear has to be rational in order to be legitimate?

What the hell...

Unless it's fear of Muslims, Mexicans, or black men...


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