Racism

[Irvine511]

I don't hate anyone because of their color, but there are people of color I hate based on their actions. I don't think anyone can explain it to you.

you like black people fine, you just hate n*ggers.

you explained it well.

i'm sure you're fine with women, jews, gays, latinos, and asians.

it's just too bad when bitches, kikes, faggots, spics, and slopes have to ruin it with their behavior.

 

[BVS]

I don't hate anyone because of their color, but there are people of color I hate based on their actions. I don't think anyone can explain it to you.

Hate aside, judging individuals based on actions is fine, but this forum knows from previous posts that you HAVE gone beyond that. We have seen you judge "cultures" as a whole and done it based on race. Your posts speak for themselves, that's all I'm saying.

 

[maycocksean]

I don't hate anyone because of their color, but there are people of color I hate based on their actions. I don't think anyone can explain it to you.

This is where things get really tricky. . .

First let me say that while agree that not everyone is a racist, I would argue that everyone has moments of racism. I know I have.

Often times when people get really pissed off, they fall back on race as a convenient way to dismiss or denigrate the people they are mad it. I don't know that this means that that person is "closet racist"--it does mean that we tend to fall into racist attitudes when we are angry. At least that's what happens with me. I really noticed this during my years living overseas. I found the longer I lived with the various cultures represented there, ironically, the more inclined I was to fall back on racism/negative stereotypes when frustrated or annoyed. When I first moved there, I tended to feel that I didn't know or understand the culture so I was more aware. I remember listening to a long time ex-pat at a dinner party talking about the locals and I thought he sounded so colonial. But after awhile of of living there you begin to think you "know" and that you've "figured the culture out" and you see a few things pop up repeatedly and pretty soon that's the way "they all are." After awhile I imagine there were times when I sounded quite the colonialist myself. And when mad or frustrated thoughts like "These damn [insert ethnic/cultural group here], they always. . ." would slip out.

Maybe I'm unusual in that regard, but I don't think so. I happen to think the best way to deal with those tendencies is to deal with them head-on rather than trying to deny to myself that they are there, and also to forbid myself from airing those kinds of thoughts--just reminding myself internally "no, they aren't ALL like that. You could name half a dozen people you know well who don't fit the stereotype you're about to employ."

So I'm skeptical of people who declare "I'm not racist." I tend to think racialized thinking/racism/stereotypes--whatever--is part of human nature, but one that shouldn't just be accepted resignedly. It can be overcome but it takes awareness and effort.

Believe it or not, though, I generally haven't had a lot of struggles with this in regards to white people. (Maybe it's because my wife, quite a few relatives on my moms side of the family, and many of my closest friends are white? I dunno. . . )

 

[maycocksean]

you like black people fine, you just hate n*ggers.

you explained it well.

i'm sure you're fine with women, jews, gays, latinos, and asians.

it's just too bad when bitches, kikes, faggots, spics, and slopes have to ruin it with their behavior.

Exactly. When a person is a jerk, that doesn't make it okay to use racist terminolgoy to describe them, IMO. Chris Rock's hilarious monologue notwithstanding.

 

[HyperU2]

Hate aside, judging individuals based on actions is fine, but this forum knows from previous posts that you HAVE gone beyond that. We have seen you judge "cultures" as a whole and done it based on race. Your posts speak for themselves, that's all I'm saying.

I didn't judge an entire culture, I judged a criminal culture.

you like black people fine, you just hate n*ggers.

you explained it well.

i'm sure you're fine with women, jews, gays, latinos, and asians.

it's just too bad when bitches, kikes, faggots, spics, and slopes have to ruin it with their behavior.

Close but you left out the white trash. Of course it's more PC to judge whites by their color.

 

[Irvine511]

Close but you left out the white trash. Of course it's more PC to judge whites by their color.

that's an economic distinction within whiteness, though, it's not something that ever blankets an entire race like n*gger or spic.

keep trying, though. eventually you'll stick it to those no-fun liberals.

 

[Jive Turkey]

that's an economic distinction within whiteness, though, it's not something that ever blankets an entire race like n*gger or spic.

keep trying, though. eventually you'll stick it to those no-fun liberals.

not to stick up for any of HyperU2's previous comments on race (because I dont know what they were), but I think you're missing the point of the Chris Rock video. He's using the word ****** in the same way that you want to use white trash. To label a certain segment of a racial population. I realize there is a whole lot more history in regards to the word ****** than to the phrase white trash, but I think for HyperU2 to identify with hating a certain, problem causing segment of the black population is no different than an English person saying they hate chavs.


for example, I love white people, but I hate Juggalos... for real. I cant fucking stand them

 

[BVS]

I didn't judge an entire culture, I judged a criminal culture.

You should look back on that post sometime, nowhere did it state anything about criminal culture...

 

[Irvine511]

not to stick up for any of HyperU2's previous comments on race (because I dont know what they were), but I think you're missing the point of the Chris Rock video. He's using the word ****** in the same way that you want to use white trash. To label a certain segment of a racial population. I realize there is a whole lot more history in regards to the word ****** than to the phrase white trash, but I think for HyperU2 to identify with hating a certain, problem causing segment of the black population is no different than an English person saying they hate chavs.

but as sean has noted, there's a historical context that cannot be ignored whenever a white person advocates hating n*ggers. the two words are not interchangeable, they do not have similar histories.

who says what does matter.

whenever i hang out with older gay men -- and i have a great friend who's well into his 40s and he has friends that age and older -- they throw around the term "fag" all the time. it's fine because, shock, they're all gay. there's no history of the word "fag" being spoken by an (out) gay man and then followed up with a baseball bat to the head or being tied to a fence in Laramie, WY.

i work with a whole bunch of women on a popular reality show that's about a whole group of women. and these women call each other and the women on the show "bitch" all the time. to the point where i'm actually made a bit uncomfortable. do i, as a man, ever use the word "bitch" in a gender specific context? no. never.

it's just a different thing.

i was at an Oktoberfest party last night where a German guy (citizen) had a few and pretty much quoted the Chris Rock video about black people vs. n*ggers. he said he agreed with it and said the N-word several times.

the party stopped dead and everyone tried to find another subject.

the word is that poisonous, and it does matter who says it, and to whom.

 

[UberBeaver]

Again, something that is very obvious in my mind, but hard to explain.

A lot of the rules about what's acceptable in terms of race have to do with who has the power and who does not. It explains things like why it's okay to have Black Music awards but not White Music awards.
I tend to feel that those that can't see the difference are being deliberately obtuse or taking an overly legalistic, simplistic approach to the very complex racial issues in this country. I think most people understand that a white comedian has less room to make jokes about blacks without causing offense, than the reverse. Explaining why that is so, is harder. I will give it some more thought and return to this topic when I have some time.

Don't know why, but I've also considered "black" a group similar to Latino, Italian, Irish, Asian etc - fairly broad groups, but small enough to have commonalities. "White" seems to be a much broader term that doesn't have a real historical, ethnic or sociological significance tied to it - it's kinda a European catch-all.

 

[yolland]

He's using the word ****** in the same way that you want to use white trash. To label a certain segment of a racial population.

But unmistakably in a context of invoking a sense of collective responsibility for, and concern about, intra-community problems--as Rock himself says right at the beginning of that brief lampooning of 'broke-ass white people' you were singling out, "But we can't give a fuck about them--we just gotta do our own thing." Think of how many times in that clip he says, "I'm so damn tired of this shit...what the fuck is going on?" That's comically rhetorical, yes, but also dead serious. How often do you think you'll hear Jeff Foxworthy or Ron White going beyond laughing about 'rednecks' to actually appealing to a collective white sense of responsibility for their comic target's social ills? They don't have to, because white people aren't in the position of having to prove to anyone that we aren't typified as a group by criminals and the permanent underclass. The very term "white trash" implies that's it's taken for granted that the 'non-disposable,' i.e. normal, variety of white person is reliably a fine, upstanding sort. Rock's contempt, if that's really the right word, for "niggers" isn't at all the easily afforded variety--the joke sticks in the throat, and that's precisely what charges it up and therefore makes it so funny, in the way that only something which carries these kinds of risks to the one making the joke (and their primary audience) can be.

 

[BVS]

Thank you Yolland, I'm a little perplexed as to how some don't just automatically understand this, but thanks for articulating it so well.

 

[deep]

Let's keep in mind that if you see 5 white men in suits and ties,
and 5 black men in street clothes, athletic type gear,
we ALL know which ones are likely to pose a threat to our OWN well being and other decent members of society.












(the serial killers dressed for THEIR court appearances
or the surgeons dressed for the charity basketball fundraiser for the orphanage?)

 

[HyperU2]

I'd fear the whites no matter what, most killings occur with the victim/murderer being of the same race. Even the most dangerous ghetto ****** isn't a threat to me, they're a threat to perceptions of the black race, which is why I don't like em.

 

[Got Philk?]

Interesting point on this "******" as a cultural thing. I worked in public schools last year where 96 percent of the student population was African American. A parent came in talking about her son. He was a handful and was suspended for punching and choking another student. Her comment to the teacher, social worker and a couple other employees was, "I don't know what's wrong with that ******." Then she walked away.

Here's the interesting point. The boy's teacher said, "Ok, you all heard her say that right?" To which the social worker replied in a non-nonchalant tone, "Oh, it's a cultural thing."

Now, the principal was in the room but missed this above conversation. She turns to everyone and says, "Did you all hear that?" To which the social worker replied with her earlier comment again. Things got heated. See, the principal of that school is also African-American and she went off on this social worker. She stated that she grew up in the same setting most of the families of this school are in and the use of that word is not something in her families "culture."

Now, I want to clarify something. You maybe noticed I used African-American. That is because she had mentioned that "African-American" was what she preferred. I have a dear dear friend who I used to work with during the 3rd shift. We had a LOT of great talks on this exact topic. In one of these discussions, the conversation lead to me asking something along the lines of, "so when you think of yourself what do you prefer people call you? An African American woman? Or a black woman?" She told me that with some people, she was ok them calling her a black woman. Others however, she would never allow to do so. I found that interesting. However, she did also say she preferred the word "beautiful" before either of her answers.

 

[BoMac]

In my opinion, when African-Americans use the term "******" they're using it in a way that takes away its power and effect. Why is "fuck" a curse word? Because people designated it as such, and use it in a certain context, thus giving it its power. If people one day decided to use "fuck" differently, over time it would lose its meaning.

 

[maycocksean]

To which the social worker replied in a non-nonchalant tone, "Oh, it's a cultural thing."

Now, the principal was in the room but missed this above conversation. She turns to everyone and says, "Did you all hear that?" To which the social worker replied with her earlier comment again. Things got heated. See, the principal of that school is also African-American and she went off on this social worker. She stated that she grew up in the same setting most of the families of this school are in and the use of that word is not something in her families "culture."

Yeah, the "black community" is by no means in agreement that the "n" word is acceptable amongst ourselves. I would suspect that most African Americans feel the way your principal did. For myself, while I understand the use within black culture and I don't find as offensive, I still don't like the word, even if the person who uses it is black. I don't allow my students to use the word under any circumstances.

 

[maycocksean]

Even the most dangerous ghetto ******

Is that you really don't get it or is that you don't want to get it?

 

[Jive Turkey]

But unmistakably in a context of invoking a sense of collective responsibility for, and concern about, intra-community problems--as Rock himself says right at the beginning of that brief lampooning of 'broke-ass white people' you were singling out, "But we can't give a fuck about them--we just gotta do our own thing." Think of how many times in that clip he says, "I'm so damn tired of this shit...what the fuck is going on?" That's comically rhetorical, yes, but also dead serious. How often do you think you'll hear Jeff Foxworthy or Ron White going beyond laughing about 'rednecks' to actually appealing to a collective white sense of responsibility for their comic target's social ills? They don't have to, because white people aren't in the position of having to prove to anyone that we aren't typified as a group by criminals and the permanent underclass. The very term "white trash" implies that's it's taken for granted that the 'non-disposable,' i.e. normal, variety of white person is reliably a fine, upstanding sort. Rock's contempt, if that's really the right word, for "niggers" isn't at all the easily afforded variety--the joke sticks in the throat, and that's precisely what charges it up and therefore makes it so funny, in the way that only something which carries these kinds of risks to the one making the joke (and their primary audience) can be.

Ya. I understand this. Its not my point. You people dont seem to think its okay for a white man to laugh at Chris Rock's jokes, which I find to be completely and utterly retarded. I dont expect HyperU2 to say 'I love black people but I hate niggers'. I'm saying that its not unreasonable for him to agree with Chris Rock in that, not all black people are niggers; As a matter of fact, the majority of them are upstanding people, but he hates the kind that Rock has, in this case, labeled niggers. Do you like the black people that shoot up movie theatres or rob their neighbours? I dont. But not any less than I like white people that beat their wives and wear white hoods on their heads. Its a segment of the white population that I'm going to refer to as honkies. I can do that because I'm white. Doesnt mean you cant agree with me if you're not. People get so fucking hung up on words and pussy footing around these situations. Theres a lot of truth behind what Chris Rock is saying. It wouldnt be funny otherwise. And theres absolutely nothing wrong with agreeing with him.


Edit: so I just noticed that HyperU2 used the word ****** in his everyday speech. Thats a completely different matter and he's on his own for that one

 

[A_Wanderer]

A fascist is a fascist is a fascist...

ONE of Nick Griffin’s most trusted lieutenants sparked fresh outrage last night after he warned British Jews to “show respect” or “reap what you sow when we are in power”.
Lee John Barnes, the BNP’s legal director, produced the outburst as he debated Mr Griffin’s appearance on Question Time.

While Mr Griffin tried to claim his party had ditched its anti-Semitic past, his inept sidekick exposed its true colours on an anti-extremist website. Goading opponents that the BNP had won a massive propaganda coup, he aimed his threats at lawyer David Toube who runs Harry’s Place, the website which campaigns against the BNP and Islamic extremism.

When Mr Toube, one of Britain’s most prominent Jews, told Mr Barnes, 43, not to get “too smug”, the BNP man replied: “That’s fine. Just remember though, ‘You will reap what you sow’.

“The way you treat us now is how we shall treat you in the future. The example you set us is the example we will follow when we are in power.

“The many different pressure points are beginning to converge towards a ‘tipping point’, a moment of political equilibrium when revolutionary social and political change occurs.”

He added: “Best you show us some respect, some day you will want us to respect you.”

Daily Express | UK News :: 'Show respect or reap what you sow when we are in power' BNP bigwig warns Jews

 

[MoodyJ]

you like black people fine, you just hate n*ggers.

you explained it well.

i'm sure you're fine with women, jews, gays, latinos, and asians.

it's just too bad when bitches, kikes, faggots, spics, and slopes have to ruin it with their behavior.

This reminds me of a co-worker I once had who said that her parents didn't like black people but that I was okay because I wasn't American or from a specific area of the city. That really made me feel special.

 

[financeguy]

the word is that poisonous, and it does matter who says it, and to whom.

Wow. Not sure if it's healthy to carry around that kind of a guilttrip for so long.

 

[financeguy]

A fascist is a fascist is a fascist...

Sounds like hyperbole to me. A threat of the 'we will make you pay once we get in power' type is only meaningful if the BNP have a significant chance of rising to power - hardly the case in the immediate future.

 

[BVS]

Is that you really don't get it or is that you don't want to get it?

I think it's a little bit of both.

On the Chris Rock album that had this paticular said bit they had little "skits" in between tracks that didn't show up in the live act. One tackled this very exact topic. It was an audience coming out of a Chris Rock show and everyone cheering, laughing, etc and a white guy takes over the conversation and starts talking about how Chris Rock was so funny and so true, and the audience is agreeing with everything he says and then all of the sudden he gets to the n###ers part and says "man he's so right I hate n###ers too" and the audience gets quiet, and then you hear a "oh no you didn't" and then you hear a beat down.

This show came out when I was in college and this skit was used by all the racist frat boys to justify their racism. And it was pure ignorance coupled with an unwillingness to realize their fault.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I think it's a little bit of both.

On the Chris Rock album that had this paticular said bit they had little "skits" in between tracks that didn't show up in the live act. One tackled this very exact topic. It was an audience coming out of a Chris Rock show and everyone cheering, laughing, etc and a white guy takes over the conversation and starts talking about how Chris Rock was so funny and so true, and the audience is agreeing with everything he says and then all of the sudden he gets to the n###ers part and says "man he's so right I hate n###ers too" and the audience gets quiet, and then you hear a "oh no you didn't" and then you hear a beat down.

Ya, the joke was that a white guy said 'niggers'. I dont think anyone is arguing the point that non blacks shouldnt use the word (well, maybe theres one person who is arguing that, but thats irrelevant at this point)

And just because a few frat boys use it to justify their actions, it doesnt prove anything. People twist things to suit their own agendas all the time. you know that

 

[BVS]

You people dont seem to think its okay for a white man to laugh at Chris Rock's jokes, which I find to be completely and utterly retarded.

I don't think that's the point...

Ya, the joke was that a white guy said 'niggers'. I dont think anyone is arguing the point that non blacks shouldnt use the word (well, maybe theres one person who is arguing that, but thats irrelevant at this point)

And just because a few frat boys use it to justify their actions, it doesnt prove anything. People twist things to suit their own agendas all the time. you know that

My point was that even Chris Rock says it's OK to laugh at this joke, BUT certain people cannot "own" it and use it as their own(and I don't mean that from a literal copyright standpoint).

I have a very self deprecating sense of humor and it's OK for you to laugh when I say the joke, but if you were to say it to me, it would be an insult. I think that is point some are trying to make...

 

[Irvine511]

Wow. Not sure if it's healthy to carry around that kind of a guilttrip for so long.

yes, please do lecture me on my country's history. Europeans love to do that.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I don't think that's the point...



My point was that even Chris Rock says it's OK to laugh at this joke, BUT certain people cannot "own" it and use it as their own(and I don't mean that from a literal copyright standpoint).

I have a very self deprecating sense of humor and it's OK for you to laugh when I say the joke, but if you were to say it to me, it would be an insult. I think that is point some are trying to make...

Ok, well thats fair enough. We might be arguing different points then. I just dont think its necessarily racist to agree with some of the points that he makes.

 

[BVS]

Ok, well thats fair enough. We might be arguing different points then. I just dont think its necessarily racist to agree with some of the points that he makes.

I know what you are saying, I just think "agree" might be the wrong word. Agree almost infers fact, I mean it is a joke and full of hyperbole and stereotype, so agree may be too strong of a word.

I can make a joke about how when I take off my shirt people have to put on sunglasses, now I would expect you to laugh, but for you to tell me you agree is a different thing.

I hope I'm making sense. I know it may seem like we're arguing semantics, but I do think it's a very important difference.

 

[HyperU2]

Is that you really don't get it or is that you don't want to get it?

You don't get that there is occasionally crime in the ghetto?


Does anyone on here refuse to listen to Elvis Presley Ate America?