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Old 07-06-2011, 09:22 PM   #1
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question for republicans

Something I've wondered... when it comes to social / economic policies, why is it always all or nothing for those on the right? I was reading this article (http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113075/end-40-hour-workweek-mainstreet?mod=career-worklife_balance) about how most Americans are working more than 40 hours a week and what not and what followed was a number of angry comments calling the author “anti-capitalist“ and what not. This kind of “all or nothing” / “either or” thinking has become rampant with a lot of Americans. Just because someone brings up valid points in an article about how we are working too much and / or making too little it doesn't mean they are advocating communism or socialism. There was a good middle ground between the extremes that the U.S enjoyed between 1945 - 1973. During this time jobs were stable, pay was decent and 40 hour work weeks were the norm and the US enjoyed one of it's longest and strongest economic booms in history! This boom lifted ALL classes of Americans standard of living. That wouldn't have been possible if we were all commies or welfare bums during this period. The majority of Americans were decent, hardworking folks just like most of todays families trying to make ends meet. The problem is, since the 70's economic polices have shifted strongly to the right favoring the wealthy over everyone else and leading to nearly stagnant wages for most Americans. Yet ANY talk of this always leads to republicans screaming commie! Can they not see that it's possible for there to be a middle ground? a society that is capitalistic but that has some safe guards in place to make sure things don't get too out of hand and that workers and families have some protection?
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:11 AM   #2
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:11 AM   #3
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I'm not a Republican, but I find that partisan heat runs on both sides. True pragmatic centrists like Clinton are hard to find.

Anger is a more potent political fuel than moderation and common sense.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:24 AM   #4
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I'm not a Republican, but I find that partisan heat runs on both sides. True pragmatic centrists like Clinton are hard to find.

Anger is a more potent political fuel than moderation and common sense.
Yes, because Clinton was so beloved and appreciated by the GOP.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:18 PM   #5
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well he's not black

ha ha ha
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:05 PM   #6
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Yes, because Clinton was so beloved and appreciated by the GOP.
Hardly that, but they sure found a way to work together.

Clinton became a centrist; he started out an ideologue, a role that I never felt suited him. The 94 revolution was a reactionary response by the right and to the right out of anger over those first two years. Clinton responded by moving to the pragmatic center, which suited him just fine. The politicians who tried to make anger a plank have since received their comeuppance.

Anger's like cocaine -- fast and cheap, but leaving a messy residue.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:33 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by pcfitz80 View Post
Something I've wondered... when it comes to social / economic policies, why is it always all or nothing for those on the right? I was reading this article (http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/113075/end-40-hour-workweek-mainstreet?mod=career-worklife_balance) about how most Americans are working more than 40 hours a week and what not and what followed was a number of angry comments calling the author “anti-capitalist“ and what not. This kind of “all or nothing” / “either or” thinking has become rampant with a lot of Americans. Just because someone brings up valid points in an article about how we are working too much and / or making too little it doesn't mean they are advocating communism or socialism. There was a good middle ground between the extremes that the U.S enjoyed between 1945 - 1973. During this time jobs were stable, pay was decent and 40 hour work weeks were the norm and the US enjoyed one of it's longest and strongest economic booms in history! This boom lifted ALL classes of Americans standard of living. That wouldn't have been possible if we were all commies or welfare bums during this period. The majority of Americans were decent, hardworking folks just like most of todays families trying to make ends meet. The problem is, since the 70's economic polices have shifted strongly to the right favoring the wealthy over everyone else and leading to nearly stagnant wages for most Americans. Yet ANY talk of this always leads to republicans screaming commie! Can they not see that it's possible for there to be a middle ground? a society that is capitalistic but that has some safe guards in place to make sure things don't get too out of hand and that workers and families have some protection?
The fact that you can see shades of grey almost identifies you as a progressive.

But for conservatives, everything is like this. All or nothing. Good or evil. Right or wrong. What's fascinating is that they don't even deny it. They'll argue incessantly that everything does come down to that and you're a wimp for not choosing a side.

I've said this before, but I truly believe that 500 years from now, people will study this turn of the century, Fox News, Tea Party, American conservative with all the intrigue and bewilderment that we now study the Cro-Magnon.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:52 PM   #8
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I've said this before, but I truly believe that 500 years from now, people will study this turn of the century, Fox News, Tea Party, American conservative with all the intrigue and bewilderment that we now study the Cro-Magnon.
Please pardon us knuckle-dragging Cro-Magnons that have yet to evolve into pompous liberal elites.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:57 PM   #9
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Please pardon us knuckle-dragging Cro-Magnons that have yet to evolve into pompous liberal elites.
I pardon you.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:08 PM   #10
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Until I was 14 I considered myself a Republican. I remember one day listening to a George Bush speech about the War in Iraq (this would have been 2005) and responding very poorly to it. It led me to reconsidering my political ties and realizing that the right side of the country sees everything as black-and-white. It was within that 12 hour period that I went from being a conservative to being a moderate with an open mind.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:05 PM   #11
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I think that 12 hour speech swayed a lot of people.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:36 AM   #12
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Until I was 14 I considered myself a Republican. I remember one day listening to a George Bush speech about the War in Iraq (this would have been 2005) and responding very poorly to it. It led me to reconsidering my political ties and realizing that the right side of the country sees everything as black-and-white. It was within that 12 hour period that I went from being a conservative to being a moderate with an open mind.
And think of how much cleaner your knuckles are now.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:00 PM   #13
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But for conservatives, everything is like this. All or nothing. Good or evil. Right or wrong. What's fascinating is that they don't even deny it. They'll argue incessantly that everything does come down to that and you're a wimp for not choosing a side.
The left is just as prone to absolutism as the right. Each side of the party has their own particular moral imperative and their own justifications for why they are right and the other is wrong.

The older I get, the more comfortable with grey I get.
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Old 07-08-2011, 02:46 PM   #14
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The left is just as prone to absolutism as the right. Each side of the party has their own particular moral imperative and their own justifications for why they are right and the other is wrong.

The older I get, the more comfortable with grey I get.
I dissagree that the left is just as prone to absolutism. Maybe some on the left are like this but I think its far less common than on the right. The right wants pure capitalism and fights almost every progressive program championed by the left, calling them a move toward socialism. But when was the last time you saw someone on the left in America argue for pure socialism or communism? My point is that comparing the left vs. right in America today isn't analagous to black vs. white - its like comparing black vs. grey. the right is black and the left is that grey area in the middle.
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:23 PM   #15
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when was the last time you saw someone on the left in America argue for pure socialism or communism?
Um, Socialists and Communists. Who do exist in America. Just like the KKK and Nazis.

You really should qualify what you're talking about. The Right isn't any more monolithic than The Left is. Bush was unpopular with over 70% of Americans in the latter years of his presidency -- that included an awful lot of conservatives. Obama is unpopular with some within his own party who feel that he's catering too much to the center/right with his policies.

"The Left" and "the Right" are vague, nondescriptive terms that are generally unhelpful for a country that is decidedly centrist.
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