Pure, uneducated ignorance. Go religion! - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-26-2013, 12:28 AM   #76
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
How should I say non-believers should be disposed of?
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:35 AM   #77
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,808
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Stoned to oblivion with hardcover Joel Osteen books.
__________________

__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:43 AM   #78
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 81,105
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonMelon View Post
I was half asleep, get off my ass.

Ashley said 6 billion wide awake
One you get past 1 billion, it's all the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
I am.

And I teach middle school science in a Christian private school.

And our denomination has a very traditional view of origins.

Of course being a private school, we can kind of "teach whatever we want" but I personally don't feel comfortable teaching my students that creation is scientific fact. It's doing them a disservice and is only going to set them up to be blindsided later when that teaching is challenged and up-ended.

From a science teacher's perspective, I feel my students need to understand evolutionary theory, they need to understand and appreciate what meets the standards of scientific fact and what does not. They need to understand why the scientific community accepts evolution as fact.

But I also teach my students their Bible class too, and from that perspective I want them to understand that it is okay to believe in God as Creator. I want them to understand that their faith is separate from (but not necessarily incompatible with) their understanding of science.
I like that. When I was in private school (only up until 3rd grade), I was pretty much prepared for trench warfare when it came to how to handle inevitable discussions of evolution if I ever went to public school. It was funny, I spent years of my life waiting in trepidation because of the way my elementary school teachers acted and when it finally came, I think we spent like a minute on the subject, in the grand scheme of science things (I like to say Grand Scheme so there).

I loved my elementary school otherwise, but I look back on it a bit sourly for that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Dimetrodons
The source of all life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
You both have articulated quite well how I feel on the subject.

bono_212, I've always said my objections to evolution are theological not scientific. For me it's hard to reconcile our understanding of sin and death with the process of evolution which pretty much requires death to take place. But again this is purely a theological question and has no place in the science lab.

At the same time, I'm inclined to view the first chapter or two of Genesis as the author's best attempt to explain something that he never personally witnessed. I find that insisting on a literal reading of the creation story is very limiting to God. To insist that God created the world this way because that's the way I read it in the text is putting God in a very small box. For me it is enough to say that God created. Whether that means He is the author of the Big Bang or something else I can't claim to know.
I think that sounds about right for me as well, really. I don't know why we have to talk about Religion in science class, I think we all know that there are people who don't agree. Move on. No one complains when Greek gods are mentioned in history class...well, almost no one.

I said earlier that I believe the Bible is God-Breathed and I basically take it at its word. To that end, of course there's still the "I just don't know" factor, and I can accept that for the most part. I find the Bible to be a living thing (the Living Word, etc.), and I get many different things out of it all the time. But, I don't usually go in search of the answers to this particular question, as, like I said before, it just doesn't bother me that much.



Anyways, did Jive say he was God just a minute ago?
__________________
bono_212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:52 AM   #79
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post

I said earlier that I believe the Bible is God-Breathed and I basically take it at its word.
My understanding is that the Bible is inspired by God but written by men. I take it at it's word too, but I believe the writers were expressing, in many cases, the inexpressible, trying to put the divine into words we can understand. They were limited by their culture, their vocabulary, their knowledge. It's the Holy Spirit that makes the Word of God living and powerful.

When they talk about the sun standing still in the sky in the book of Joshua, we know that the sun didn't really "stand still" since it's not the sun, but the earth's movement that we're witnessing. But the author of Joshua didn't know that, and the Bible isn't meant to be a science textbook.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
Anyways, did Jive say he was God just a minute ago?
More or less
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 12:55 AM   #80
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post


The source of all life.
I hope I'm not going to make an ass of myself, but I think dimetrodons were precursors to protomammals... They certainly weren't direct ancestors to Dinosaurs like one would assume... Imma look into that
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:01 AM   #81
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
No one complains when Greek gods are mentioned in history class...well, almost no one.
Oh, let me tell you, Biblical history is effin fascinating. I think the next book I read might be on the topic. My living room looks a bit like a Victorian natural history museum and I've got a coin from when Constantine ruled in a display case (ok, that part isn't natural history, but I have old antiquities too). I love that stuff
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:02 AM   #82
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post

Anyways, did Jive say he was God just a minute ago?
I did, yes.
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:05 AM   #83
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 81,105
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
I hope I'm not going to make an ass of myself, but I think dimetrodons were precursors to protomammals... They certainly weren't direct ancestors to Dinosaurs like one would assume... Imma look into that
Listen, you. If I want to start my own religion about Dimetrodon's being the source of life, you won't stop me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Oh, let me tell you, Biblical history is effin fascinating. I think the next book I read might be on the topic. My living room looks a bit like a Victorian natural history museum and I've got a coin from when Constantine ruled in a display case (ok, that part isn't natural history, but I have old antiquities too). I love that stuff
History is my favorite thing in the entire universe. I can't get enough. Especially mythology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
I did, yes.
Heathen....



...is an album by David Bowie. It's quite good.
__________________
bono_212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:05 AM   #84
War Child
 
Dfit00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 893
Local Time: 08:26 PM
Americans are very sensitive when their personal religious beliefs, culture and overall ways of thinking are challenged.
This level of sensitivity causes these issues to arise quite frequently, something that should not happen given the common purpose of life.
__________________
Dfit00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:07 AM   #85
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Can I be right and wrong? Ok. Thanks

"Generally reptile-like in appearance and physiology, Dimetrodon is nevertheless more closely related to mammals than it is to any living reptilian group, though it is not a direct ancestor of any mammals. Dimetrodon belongs to a group traditionally called "mammal-like reptiles", more recently termed "stem-mammals" or "non-mammalian synapsids"[2] because many vertebrate paleontologists today group Dimetrodon together with mammals in an evolutionary group or clade called Synapsida while dinosaurs go together with living reptiles and birds in a separate group, Sauropsida. "
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:12 AM   #86
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfit00 View Post
Americans are very sensitive when their personal religious beliefs, culture and overall ways of thinking are challenged.
This level of sensitivity causes these issues to arise quite frequently, something that should not happen given the common purpose of life.
I think it's just passion being expressed, though not always as focused as it could be. I'm certainly guilty of it. But I like that people can care so deeply about something that they get worked up every once in a while. As long as it eventually works its way toward thoughtful discussion as it did here, it serves its purpose. People get some shit off their chest and the juices start flowing (hopefully not out of a wound and onto the ground)
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 08:00 AM   #87
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,587
Local Time: 12:26 AM
Lets see ill probably just kill this thread...


I've always gone by the saying that God has to be objective right? Either exists or doesn't. As soon as it turns subjective then it's just a matter of opinion. You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts. Science is the process of making a claim a fact or not.

I wouldn't want opinions taught in science, at least not taught as FACT. If you want to believe in a young earth that's fine, and if you want it a part of science class, then please provide the evidence or scientific process to this idea.

Because religion is subjective, it allows believers to continue to hold their faith in spite of what we have found to dispute it. Just reading this thread proves its just one mans/woman's opinion. One person believes the bible is the word of god, another believes its written by man but inspired. If god was indeed a fact would we really have differing opinions? And then throw in the different faiths:beliefs. Every religion can't be right, but they can all be wrong.

I want to stress I don't see a problem with believing. If it makes you a better person, gives you comfort or strength, then please use it! Jive and I are more concerned and get the most upset when it appears as though a belief system is trying to find its way into a process, institution or part of life where it does not belong. Private schools, home schooling, house of worship, your own social group....say whatever and believe whatever you want.

But please keep whatever belief theories out of public education system
__________________
BEAL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 11:22 AM   #88
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 07:26 PM
This kind of stuff definitely happens. A teacher at my husband's school got a talking-to because a parent complained s/he was teaching plate tectonics. All of the continents are where they were originally put by God.
__________________
Liesje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:16 PM   #89
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
Lets see ill probably just kill this thread...


I've always gone by the saying that God has to be objective right? Either exists or doesn't. As soon as it turns subjective then it's just a matter of opinion. You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts. Science is the process of making a claim a fact or not.

I wouldn't want opinions taught in science, at least not taught as FACT. If you want to believe in a young earth that's fine, and if you want it a part of science class, then please provide the evidence or scientific process to this idea.

Because religion is subjective, it allows believers to continue to hold their faith in spite of what we have found to dispute it. Just reading this thread proves its just one mans/woman's opinion. One person believes the bible is the word of god, another believes its written by man but inspired. If god was indeed a fact would we really have differing opinions? And then throw in the different faiths:beliefs. Every religion can't be right, but they can all be wrong.

I want to stress I don't see a problem with believing. If it makes you a better person, gives you comfort or strength, then please use it! Jive and I are more concerned and get the most upset when it appears as though a belief system is trying to find its way into a process, institution or part of life where it does not belong. Private schools, home schooling, house of worship, your own social group....say whatever and believe whatever you want.

But please keep whatever belief theories out of public education system
well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liesje View Post
This kind of stuff definitely happens. A teacher at my husband's school got a talking-to because a parent complained s/he was teaching plate tectonics. All of the continents are where they were originally put by God.
A talking to by whom? That's insanity
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:04 PM   #90
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,587
Local Time: 12:26 AM
Why aren't we teaching the controversy of Thor? I saw a film, and have read books about where he came down to earth and caused mass destruction due to other God's/Beings from other planets chasing him, and/or trying to take some of our resources. He's got a magical hammar!

Why aren't our kids learning about this? If there are planets that are holding destructive forces or evil, we should know about it.

Why isn't science telling us this? Please don't make fun of me though, this is just what I believe in, and it has a special meaning in my life.
__________________

__________________
BEAL is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com