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Old 02-25-2013, 11:50 PM   #61
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I was going to respond to your last post with an answer to this question, so I see you and I are on the same page of discussion here:

Honestly? I don't think so, but let me explain: I see the mountains of evidence, I accept that there is science and fact behind them. I don't know what to think. What I know is this, I believe in God, most assuredly. I believe that the Bible is God-breathed, but I believe it is up to us as individuals to find our way through it with guidance from our Church/Leaders (but ultimately ourselves). But, in believing that, there comes with it the question: If the beginning of the Bible is the beginning of Earth and Evolution has a mountain of evidence behind it, where did hundreds of millions of years of history go?

What I end up deciding at the end of the day is: I don't know. But I don't see Evolution in the Bible, I don't see 300 million years of history. I don't choose to fight over it, I choose to focus on more important things instead: Being as good a person as I can be, giving to those what I can, donating my time to those who need it, "preaching" brotherhood among people, rather than hatred and judgment, etc.

So, do I believe in evolutionary theory? Not really. Does the thought of whether or not I'm right or wrong keep me up at night? No. It's not really important to me in the grand scheme of things. And that's what I'll likely explain to my children, should they decide to follow in my beliefs and, at some point, some to this same scientific high school fork in the road.

Does that make sense? I'm not being willfully ignorant, I've done research, when I've had a mind to, I've heard the theories behind Intelligent Design as well (I don't buy into those either, fwiw, not because I refuse to accept evolution in any form, I just think it's people trying to rectify in order to get their way, kind of like what you said), it just doesn't work with what I believe, and I can accept that. I can't explain it, but I truly believe I'll know what in the world was going on someday.
Very nicely put There's something old timey about that that I really like (that probably reads incredibly condescendingly, but I mean it with high regard. I like to try to keep a bit of old timey in my life too). I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "where did the hundreds of millions of years go" though. Can you expand on that a bit?
Might not be what you mean, but if we're talking about evolution, there's something like 3.8 billion years of activity
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:51 PM   #62
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The idea that God created the world is a religious belief, not a scientific one. Believers have to learn to be comfortable with that. I for one, am. I believe that God created everything (though I think it's highly unlikely that it was in 6 literal days six thousand years ago. There's just too much overwhelming evidence to the contrary) but I recognize this as a matter of personal faith, and not something that is appropriate to be injected into the world of science (at least not without supporting scientific evidence, which does not exist at this point).
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:52 PM   #63
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Nope.

I feel the same about teaching creationism.

The idea that God created the world is a religious belief, not a scientific one. Believers have to learn to be comfortable with that. I for one, am. I believe that God created everything (though I think it's highly unlikely that it was in 6 literal days six thousand years ago. There's just too much overwhelming evidence to the contrary) but I recognize this as a matter of personal faith, and not something that is appropriate to be injected into the world of science (at least not without supporting scientific evidence, which does not exist at this point).
You are a model religious guy (imho )
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:53 PM   #64
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I believe in evolution as a process based in fact, but I've also yet to find a compelling reason to give up faith in an interventionist God because of it. I'm quite comfortable where I am. I believe everyone should have a chance to reach that point as well; a belief system based in ignorance is a weak one.

Let your kids learn the current scientific thought at school and if you believe something else, tell them what you think. But don't suppress knowledge because you either lack it or interpret it differently.


Why can't they all be like you lot?
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:54 PM   #65
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Very nicely put There's something old timey about that that I really like (that probably reads incredibly condescendingly, but I mean it with high regard. I like to try to keep a bit of old timey in my life too). I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "where did the hundreds of millions of years go" though. Can you expand on that a bit?
Might not be what you mean, but if we're talking about evolution, there's something like 3.8 billion years of activity
Haha, I actually kinda got what you meant.

Damn it, that's what I thought, but Travis and I were talking about this while shopping at Barnes and Noble and sipping Starbucks while texting to you all, as yuppie college students are wont to do, and he told me 300 million. Blame him.

But seriously, I agreed with him as soon as he said it, because there's SOMETHING about the number 300 million, I know there is. What is it, Jive? TELL ME.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:56 PM   #66
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I was half asleep, get off my ass.

Ashley said 6 billion wide awake
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:56 PM   #67
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Are you a teacher, Sean? This has nothing to do with Religion, it just sounds like you'd be a good one.

I am.

And I teach middle school science in a Christian private school.

And our denomination has a very traditional view of origins.

Of course being a private school, we can kind of "teach whatever we want" but I personally don't feel comfortable teaching my students that creation is scientific fact. It's doing them a disservice and is only going to set them up to be blindsided later when that teaching is challenged and up-ended.

From a science teacher's perspective, I feel my students need to understand evolutionary theory, they need to understand and appreciate what meets the standards of scientific fact and what does not. They need to understand why the scientific community accepts evolution as fact.

But I also teach my students their Bible class too, and from that perspective I want them to understand that it is okay to believe in God as Creator. I want them to understand that their faith is separate from (but not necessarily incompatible with) their understanding of science.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:02 AM   #68
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Haha, I actually kinda got what you meant.

Damn it, that's what I thought, but Travis and I were talking about this while shopping at Barnes and Noble and sipping Starbucks while texting to you all, as yuppie college students are wont to do, and he told me 300 million. Blame him.

But seriously, I agreed with him as soon as he said it, because there's SOMETHING about the number 300 million, I know there is. What is it, Jive? TELL ME.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:08 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
I was going to respond to your last post with an answer to this question, so I see you and I are on the same page of discussion here:

Honestly? I don't think so, but let me explain: I see the mountains of evidence, I accept that there is science and fact behind them. I don't know what to think. What I know is this, I believe in God, most assuredly. I believe that the Bible is God-breathed, but I believe it is up to us as individuals to find our way through it with guidance from our Church/Leaders (but ultimately ourselves). But, in believing that, there comes with it the question: If the beginning of the Bible is the beginning of Earth and Evolution has a mountain of evidence behind it, where did hundreds of millions of years of history go?

What I end up deciding at the end of the day is: I don't know. But I don't see Evolution in the Bible, I don't see 300 million years of history. I don't choose to fight over it, I choose to focus on more important things instead: Being as good a person as I can be, giving to those what I can, donating my time to those who need it, "preaching" brotherhood among people, rather than hatred and judgment, etc.

So, do I believe in evolutionary theory? Not really. Does the thought of whether or not I'm right or wrong keep me up at night? No. It's not really important to me in the grand scheme of things. And that's what I'll likely explain to my children, should they decide to follow in my beliefs and, at some point, come to this same scientific high school fork in the road.

Does that make sense? I'm not being willfully ignorant, I've done research, when I've had a mind to, I've heard the theories behind Intelligent Design as well (I don't buy into those either, fwiw, not because I refuse to accept evolution in any form, I just think it's people trying to rectify in order to get their way, kind of like what you said), it just doesn't work with what I believe, and I can accept that. I can't explain it, but I truly believe I'll know what in the world was going on someday.
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I believe in evolution as a process based in fact, but I've also yet to find a compelling reason to give up faith in an interventionist God because of it. I'm quite comfortable where I am. I believe everyone should have a chance to reach that point as well; a belief system based in ignorance is a weak one.

Let your kids learn the current scientific thought at school and if you believe something else, tell them what you think. But don't suppress knowledge because you either lack it or interpret it differently.
You both have articulated quite well how I feel on the subject.

bono_212, I've always said my objections to evolution are theological not scientific. For me it's hard to reconcile our understanding of sin and death with the process of evolution which pretty much requires death to take place. But again this is purely a theological question and has no place in the science lab.

At the same time, I'm inclined to view the first chapter or two of Genesis as the author's best attempt to explain something that he never personally witnessed. I find that insisting on a literal reading of the creation story is very limiting to God. To insist that God created the world this way because that's the way I read it in the text is putting God in a very small box. For me it is enough to say that God created. Whether that means He is the author of the Big Bang or something else I can't claim to know.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:09 AM   #70
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I was half asleep, get off my ass.

Ashley said 6 billion wide awake
At least she got the last bit right

For reference, the Universe is near 14 billion years old, the Earth about 4.5
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:11 AM   #71
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And from it's shaky beginnings, thoughtful discussion! This thread is evolving right before your eyes folks
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:12 AM   #72
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At least she got the last bit right

For reference, the Universe is near 14 billion years old, the Earth about 4.5
And if I were in an Oklahoma high school I wouldn't have been taught this just now
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:12 AM   #73
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And from it's shaky beginnings, thoughtful discussion! This thread is evolving right before your eyes folks
No,no.

It's being CREATED!
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:14 AM   #74
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No,no.

It's being CREATED!
Then that makes me.....
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:20 AM   #75
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Make a thread stating that and see if it goes over better than this one
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