Pure, uneducated ignorance. Go religion! - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-25-2013, 11:28 PM   #46
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
I have a hard time understanding the rage that some people feel about others who believe in unscientific ideas. It baffles me. It really does. But I guess there are believers who all angry about the "infidels" too, so there you go. . .
My rage isn't with people like Ashley who believe what they want to believe. It's with the people trying to subvert the system

Quote:
I would also disagree with a law that "penalizes" students for expressing an opinion, when that is what is being asked for.
Evolution isn't an opinion. There are wrong answers
__________________

__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #47
ONE
love, blood, life
 
digitize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dallas and around the Texas Triangle
Posts: 13,962
Local Time: 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
classical mechanics [is an] indisputable fact
Actually...
__________________

__________________
digitize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #48
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,797
Local Time: 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
I have a hard time understanding the rage that some people feel about others who believe in unscientific ideas. It baffles me. It really does. But I guess there are believers who all angry about the "infidels" too, so there you go. . .
Well, in this case, the assumption is that it will have some lasting effect on education in Oklahoma. If there is no power or influence behind it though, who cares what someone believes? I sure don't. It's nice to help understand them if I have some relationship to them, but otherwise it's harmless.
__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #49
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitize View Post
Actually...


I didn't think I needed to add "at a macroscopic level" as nobody is teaching otherwise
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:32 PM   #50
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
I think there's definitely a line between "Pearl Harbor didn't happen" and not believing in Evolution.
Apparently there are people that think that the moon landing was a hoax too. . .

I'm not mad about these people. I think they are wrong and grossly misinformed, but you won't see me getting red in the face about it.

If one of students answered a test question such as "When did the first man walk on the moon?" with "Never. The whole thing was a hoax perpetrated by the military-industrial complex to keep us all subservient to our coporate overlords" I would speak with the student and explain that they are being tested on what has been taught and that I cannot accept as correct answers that diverge so radically from generally accepted facts. I would encourage the student to consider their sources for their belief and ask them to think about how one can critical thinking and rational thought to sift through the various "facts" out there to conclude what is true.

Of course I could just mark a big x across the answer and not say a word, but I think such a response would only encourage the student to double down on his or her ignorance.

It seems like a similar response could be taken regarding a student who argues for creation?
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:33 PM   #51
ONE
love, blood, life
 
digitize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dallas and around the Texas Triangle
Posts: 13,962
Local Time: 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
I didn't think I needed to add "at a macroscopic level"
At a macroscopic level, but not too macroscopic of a level, it's a very useful model to approximate physical behavior, but I have a problem with characterizing anything in science above that which can be derived a priori from logic (i.e., mathematics) as a fact, and I don't believe that it should be treated as such. But on the whole, I agree with you.
__________________
digitize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:34 PM   #52
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Apparently there are people that think that the moon landing was a hoax too. . .

I'm not mad about these people. I think they are wrong and grossly misinformed, but you won't see me getting red in the face about it.

If one of students answered a test question such as "When did the first man walk on the moon?" with "Never. The whole thing was a hoax perpetrated by the military-industrial complex to keep us all subservient to our coporate overlords" I would speak with the student and explain that they are being tested on what has been taught and that I cannot accept as correct answers that diverge so radically from generally accepted facts. I would encourage the student to consider their sources for their belief and ask them to think about how one can critical thinking and rational thought to sift through the various "facts" out there to conclude what is true.

Of course I could just mark a big x across the answer and not say a word, but I think such a response would only encourage the student to double down on his or her ignorance.

It seems like a similar response could be taken regarding a student who argues for creation?
Do you then think that a large chunk of the curriculum should be devoted to talking about why the moon landing might be a hoax? Because that's that they're pushing for with creationism
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:36 PM   #53
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitize View Post
At a macroscopic level, but not too macroscopic of a level, it's a very useful model to approximate physical behavior, but I have a problem with characterizing anything in science above that which can be derived a priori from logic (i.e., mathematics) as a fact, and I don't believe that it should be treated as such. But on the whole, I agree with you.
fair
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:39 PM   #54
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
My rage isn't with people like Ashley who believe what they want to believe. It's with the people trying to subvert the system
I see. Yeah, I see the concern. I don't understand Christians trying to get creation taught alongside evolution. It's not scientific.

I don't think we as believers have to feel bad about that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Evolution isn't an opinion. There are wrong answers
Agreed. But there are kids who are going to come with their research papers full quotes from this and that Creation Science Institute etc and just marking a big F across their papers is not going to help them.
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:40 PM   #55
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
I see. Yeah, I see the concern. I don't understand Christians trying to get creation taught alongside evolution. It's not scientific.

I don't think we as believers have to feel bad about that.





Agreed. But there are kids who are going to come with their research papers full quotes from this and that Creation Science Institute etc and just marking a big F across their papers is not going to help them.

I agree with all of this
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:40 PM   #56
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 81,104
Local Time: 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
I think this is a perfectly reasonable solution to balance your beliefs.

honest question: Could there be enough that you can learn about evolution that would make you change your mind? Or are you steadfast in your decision? No judgement either way
I was going to respond to your last post with an answer to this question, so I see you and I are on the same page of discussion here:

Honestly? I don't think so, but let me explain: I see the mountains of evidence, I accept that there is science and fact behind them. I don't know what to think. What I know is this, I believe in God, most assuredly. I believe that the Bible is God-breathed, but I believe it is up to us as individuals to find our way through it with guidance from our Church/Leaders (but ultimately ourselves). But, in believing that, there comes with it the question: If the beginning of the Bible is the beginning of Earth and Evolution has a mountain of evidence behind it, where did hundreds of millions of years of history go?

What I end up deciding at the end of the day is: I don't know. But I don't see Evolution in the Bible, I don't see 300 million years of history. I don't choose to fight over it, I choose to focus on more important things instead: Being as good a person as I can be, giving to those what I can, donating my time to those who need it, "preaching" brotherhood among people, rather than hatred and judgment, etc.

So, do I believe in evolutionary theory? Not really. Does the thought of whether or not I'm right or wrong keep me up at night? No. It's not really important to me in the grand scheme of things. And that's what I'll likely explain to my children, should they decide to follow in my beliefs and, at some point, come to this same scientific high school fork in the road.

Does that make sense? I'm not being willfully ignorant, I've done research, when I've had a mind to, I've heard the theories behind Intelligent Design as well (I don't buy into those either, fwiw, not because I refuse to accept evolution in any form, I just think it's people trying to rectify in order to get their way, kind of like what you said), it just doesn't work with what I believe, and I can accept that. I can't explain it, but I truly believe I'll know what in the world was going on someday.
__________________
bono_212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:42 PM   #57
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Jive Turkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,646
Local Time: 11:55 AM
I always say, on the personal level, I don't have any problem with religion. I honestly do feel that we don't need it and we'd be better off without it, but there are so many religious people that are so damn nice (have you met my Nana?). It can be a nice thing and I'm sure the ones defending it here see it in that light
__________________
Jive Turkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:43 PM   #58
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 81,104
Local Time: 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
Apparently there are people that think that the moon landing was a hoax too. . .

I'm not mad about these people. I think they are wrong and grossly misinformed, but you won't see me getting red in the face about it.

If one of students answered a test question such as "When did the first man walk on the moon?" with "Never. The whole thing was a hoax perpetrated by the military-industrial complex to keep us all subservient to our coporate overlords" I would speak with the student and explain that they are being tested on what has been taught and that I cannot accept as correct answers that diverge so radically from generally accepted facts. I would encourage the student to consider their sources for their belief and ask them to think about how one can critical thinking and rational thought to sift through the various "facts" out there to conclude what is true.

Of course I could just mark a big x across the answer and not say a word, but I think such a response would only encourage the student to double down on his or her ignorance.

It seems like a similar response could be taken regarding a student who argues for creation?
Are you a teacher, Sean? This has nothing to do with Religion, it just sounds like you'd be a good one.
__________________
bono_212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:47 PM   #59
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
Do you then think that a large chunk of the curriculum should be devoted to talking about why the moon landing might be a hoax? Because that's that they're pushing for with creationism
Nope.

I feel the same about teaching creationism.

The idea that God created the world is a religious belief, not a scientific one. Believers have to learn to be comfortable with that. I for one, am. I believe that God created everything (though I think it's highly unlikely that it was in 6 literal days six thousand years ago. There's just too much overwhelming evidence to the contrary) but I recognize this as a matter of personal faith, and not something that is appropriate to be injected into the world of science (at least not without supporting scientific evidence, which does not exist at this point).
__________________
maycocksean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 11:50 PM   #60
The Male
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 65,797
Local Time: 08:55 AM
I believe in evolution as a process based in fact, but I've also yet to find a compelling reason to give up faith in an interventionist God because of it. I'm quite comfortable where I am. I believe everyone should have a chance to reach that point as well; a belief system based in ignorance is a weak one.

Let your kids learn the current scientific thought at school and if you believe something else, tell them what you think. But don't suppress knowledge because you either lack it or interpret it differently.
__________________

__________________


Now.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com