Proposition 8 discussion continued

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no.

a mother =emotional attributes.
a father= logical attributes.

and I have the most empathy for single parents thru no fault of their own doing their best to play mom and dad at the same time.

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I'm going to state the obvious now by saying that you're making a helluva generalization, there. I'm far more logical than my daughter's father ever thought of being.

Also, you don't have to "play" at any role to raise a child on your own. What you do need to do is to be a stable, responsive, guiding, nurturing, engaged presence in your child's life. Single people from both genders are capable of that, as are couples made up of same and opposite sex partners.
 
storming chruches, defacing property, desrupting traffic,spittle in the face of Believers and screaming at people is peaceful??

Clearly as in marriage there is a correct definition there is also a correct for peaceful.

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what websites have you been reading?

my goodness diamond, you'd think that a Mormon would be very sensitive to making sure that he doesn't let a few isolated incidents speak for the overwhelming majority of the participants.

also -- why did you use the word "believers"?

are gays not believers?
 
no.

a mother =emotional attributes.
a father= logical attributes.

and I have the most empathy for single parents thru no fault of their own doing their best to play mom and dad at the same time.

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this is a good point.

we all know women are an illogical mess, total hotbeds of emotion and need men to set them straight with logic.

especially when they have PMS.

this is why women can't be president, as Brooke Hogan has so aptly explained for us:
Trash TV: Brooke Hogan Believes Periods Render Women Unfit To Be President
 
what about single people who choose to be parents? not through divorce or death. but because they want to be parents and choose to do so without a partner.

are they as bad as gay parents? or even worse?

what if that single parent is gay? :ohmy:

discuss.
 
no.

a mother =emotional attributes.
a father= logical attributes.


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That's just typical religious wrong bullshit sweeping generalization "justification"

I sincerely hope that's the meds talking

I know more than a few illogical men and less emotional women
 
Anyway, anarchy, chaos, force and destruction of property never sway people.

I think better methods such as peaceful demonstrations always are more successful ala MLK.

That said if any Christian religous faction that would have the most empathy for GCUs, it would be the LDS Church based on their history of discriminaion.


How does the LDS's history of practicing discrimination help them here exactly ?

:scratch:


Newer Testament of Scripture on par with the and accepted established cannon of scripture,

And this is why the "real" Christians will never accept you, they will never accept that.

C'mon, show them the plates !!!!

Oh wait, that's right..........how convenient and all...........

I'll be back in January, tell you I saw Nessie but somehow all cameras of all my family members will fail at the same time, you'll just have to trust me !
 
I thought it was great when Anderson Cooper made the comment last night that no one was voting down Drew Peterson's right to marry. Think about that one..One dead wife, one missing(we all know she's dead) And he's walking around, engaged. Still married to his missing (dead) wife. Probably killed her.



Romantic link to Peterson a shock
Friends, family of 23-year-old woman reeling over reports

By Erika Slife and Mary Owen | Tribune reporters
December 19, 2008

Friends and family of Christina Raines were still reeling from the shock Thursday that she could be Drew Peterson's fiance.

"She should think before she gets into something she can't get out of," said 54-year-old Joe Raines of Minnesota, who said he was Raines' uncle. "She needs to find somebody else. Nothing good is going to come out of this."

Raines, 23, was identified this week as the latest love interest of Peterson, a 54-year-old former Bolingbrook police sergeant who is still married to his missing wife, Stacy.

Investigators have named Peterson the sole suspect in Stacy Peterson's October 2007 disappearance. She also was 23 when she was last seen.

If Raines—who couldn't be reached Thursday—is engaged to Peterson, it would be at least his sixth fiance. If they married, she would be the fifth Mrs. Drew Peterson.

Peterson declined to discuss his engagement, which was confirmed by his publicist. Sources named Raines as his betrothed. Raines denied the relationship to the Sun-Times.

Raines' former boyfriend of five years, Tony Yauk, said he saw a ring on her finger, and he knows Raines and Peterson have been friendly for years.

"I didn't think it was true," said Yauk, 26, the father of her two children, ages 4 and 5. "But I just got done talking to her face to face and I think it's true."

Authorities are investigating Stacy Peterson's disappearance as a "potential homicide." They're also reinvestigating the 2004 death of Peterson's third wife, Kathleen Savio, who was found dead in an empty bathtub.
 
I thought it was great when Anderson Cooper made the comment last night that no one was voting down Drew Peterson's right to marry. Think about that one..One dead wife, one missing(we all know she's dead) And he's walking around, engaged. Still married to his missing (dead) wife. Probably killed her.



5,000 years of tradition, Mrs. S.

5,000 years.
 
no.

a mother =emotional attributes.
a father= logical attributes.

and I have the most empathy for single parents thru no fault of their own doing their best to play mom and dad at the same time.

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That's one of the most sexist things I've read on this forum...seriously some people here are massive bigots, who need to learn that their sexist homophobic attitudes are just wrong.

Diamond are you a father? Because you just failed at showing logical attributes...
 
That's one of the most sexist things I've read on this forum...seriously some people here are massive bigots, who need to learn that their sexist homophobic attitudes are just wrong.

Diamond are you a father? Because you just failed at showing logical attributes...




5,000 years of tradition, Irishteen.

5,000 years
.
 
5,000 years of tradition, Irishteen.

5,000 years
.

Forced weddings to people you don't know and polygamy? Well if that's what he wants he has an argument but last time I checked the one man one woman of your choice thing is relatively new. Like marrying someone of a different race.


Okay...I'm freaking out a little, I'm having a bad day and I'm definitely not in the mood for annoying bigotry. *Goes back to lurking FYM*
 
Forced weddings to people you don't know and polygamy? Well if that's what he wants he has an argument but last time I checked the one man one woman of your choice thing is relatively new. Like marrying someone of a different race.




5,000 years of tradition, Irishteen.

5,000 years.

don't fall for the non-Christian lie that marriage has evolved over thousands of years, because it hasn't. it's still a mommy and a daddy who love their children. that's what it was in the time of Moses, that's what it was in the time of Jesus, that' what it was in the time of Charlemagne, and that's what it should still mean today and that's why we have to strip people of rights and denigrate gay people.

so that we have marriages today that are exactly the same as they were 5,000 years ago.
 
they have both traits in them-logic and emotion.

they are a little more emotional than they are logical-but they are more logical then some men I know.

For the most part each gender of the sexes usually bring certain strengths into a marriage-and this is why GCUs will never constitute a marriage.
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:sexywink:
 
good news



Proposition 8 must be invalidated because the amendment process cannot be used to extinguish fundamental constitutional rights without compelling justification," Brown said in a written statement.



Brown asks state high court to overturn Prop. 8

Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, December 19, 2008
California Attorney General Jerry Brown

(12-19) 18:04 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- State Attorney General Jerry Brown, in a surprise turnabout, asked the state Supreme Court late today to overturn Proposition 8, saying the voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage violates basic rights guaranteed in the state Constitution.

Brown, whose office requires him to defend state laws unless he cannot find reasonable legal grounds to do so, said after Prop. 8 passed Nov. 4 that he would support the initiative before the state's high court.

But in a lengthy filing today, he argued that the measure was "inconsistent with the guarantees of individual liberty" in California's governing charter.

"Proposition 8 must be invalidated because the amendment process cannot be used to extinguish fundamental constitutional rights without compelling justification," Brown said.

The authors of the state Constitution, he said, did not intend "to put a group's right to enjoy liberty to a popular vote."

Hours earlier, sponsors of Prop. 8 filed arguments asking the court to uphold the ballot measure, which passed with a 52 percent majority. Andrew Pugno, attorney for the Yes on 8 campaign, said he was disappointed at Brown's stance.

"It's unfortunate that the attorney general would not do his duty to defend the will of the voters," Pugno said.

The pro-Prop. 8 brief was filed by Kenneth Starr, the former Whitewater special prosecutor and now dean of Pepperdine University law school. He argued that the court should preserve the people's lawmaking powers by upholding the initiative and invalidating 18,000 weddings performed before the election.

Prop. 8 "does not broadly seek to diminish or eliminate the constitutional or civil rights of gays and lesbians," but is simply "about restoring and maintaining the traditional definition of marriage," Starr said. Decades of legal precedents, he said, require "judges - as servants of the people, to bow to the will of those whom they serve."

The court ruled 4-3 on May 15 that California's ban on same-sex marriage violated the constitutional rights of gays and lesbians to marry the partner of their choice and discriminated on the basis of sexual orientation. Prop. 8 amended the state Constitution to overturn the ruling and declare that only marriage between a man and a woman is "valid or recognized in California."

The court is reviewing lawsuits filed by gay and lesbian couples and by an array of local governments, led by San Francisco, that contend that ballot measure exceeded the legal limits on initiatives by destroying fundamental rights and stripping judges of their authority to protect a historically persecuted minority.

Such profound changes, the plaintiffs argue, amount to a constitutional revision - not merely an amendment - and require a two-thirds legislative vote to reach the ballot.

The justices could hear the cases as early as March and would be required to rule within 90 days. Other interested parties on both sides are scheduled to submit written arguments Jan. 15.
 
Here we go, the OBVIOUS next step which I pointed out immediately and then was met with opposition from diamond claiming that NOBODY was taking away existing marriages. Yarite, you could smell this one a mile away.

The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters approved the ballot initiative that outlawed gay unions.

The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief arguing that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions.

"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Pepperdine University law school dean Kenneth Starr, the former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton.

They are legally correct, which is also what I said at the outset.

Heckuva job, bigots!
 
For the most part each gender of the sexes usually bring certain strengths into a marriage-and this is why GCUs will never constitute a marriage.


Yes that must be why all straight marriages are so incredibly automatically successful, those gender differences. That man/woman thing is the key to success.

Each person brings certain strengths into a relationship or marriage, that is not dependent upon gender. You're honestly trying to tell me that two men and two women can't be completely different in complementary ways? Even in your logical and emotional ways theory.There are plenty of men who are more emotional than others, plenty of women who are more and less and the same goes for logic.

Drew Peterson must have just not had enough gender differences with his wives, so he had to off them. It's their fault too then, I guess. On to the next. Hey he's just looking for his most emotionally and logically complementary partner, cut him some slack.
 
man and woman is the model set by our Creator for marriage.

it is man's obligation to strive for perfecting themselves and the perfecting the model He prescribed.

free will has a way of making things interesting.

the wise on earth figure out how to exercise their free will in ways that will please their Creator the most and simutaneously bring joy to themselves.

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i don't purport to have all the answers, no.

and no, my personal conduct wasn't pleasing to my Creator in which I've spoken to Him about.

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I think gay ppl can find other ways to please their Creator than subvert the meaning of a word.


They're not trying to "subvert" anything, they are merely trying to have the right to the same codified commitment that you enjoy (with all of its' included benefits). You enjoy that right merely by happenstance of being born a straight male. You don't have to fight for it at all-think about how you'd feel if you had to fight for the right to marry your lovely wife, if you had your fellow citizens voting on that right. My Creator created all equal, that's the God I believe in.
 
I think its interesting about this a kid needs a mum and dad to function and become a well rounded individual. Don't most gay people have a mum and a dad? What did they do to screw them up? Leaving aside religion for a bit (which by the way is totally SUBJECTIVE to everyone and i love how someone has had a chat with god about their behaviour and thats all cool now, regardless of what you've done like a murderer getting the last rites before death and so on...oh im sure god would want you up there over a gay person but whatever)

this thing about marriage is a load of bullshit. its the same with adoption. All it is is some people who love people who are the same sex what to show their love for each other in a ceremony just like a hetro couple. They want to lavish their love and care on a child that needs that love and care. I think if people stopped hiding behind their bullshit amendment and just said what they really think and stop being so PC we could have a real fight on our hands but until then we'll just say what is right and normal and they'll speak through lies and codswallop until this prop 8 is defeated.
 
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