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Old 11-10-2008, 08:09 AM   #91
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There's no need for there to be anything about homosexuality in children's books, not really the place for it, and the whole being exposed thing is not a good argument because in the end, it's a choice, and the decision isn't going to be made based upon what you read in one of you kids books. Just my $0.02, I just thought those ads, mainly the second one, seemed ridiculous.
Why shouldn't there be anything about homosexuality in children's books? We promote heterosexuality enough, I see no reason why there shouldn't be books showing gay people. I mean I'm not saying let's print a million books on it but if someone writes the book and a school wants it, why not?

Those adverts and a lot of the stuff that I've read in this thread just makes me sad...seriously some people are unbelievable. How does gay marriage affect straight couples at all? I'm straight, I'll probably get married someday, does it matter to me if gay marriage is legal or not? Nope, I can still marry the opposite sex so I'm happy and gays can marry the same sex so they're happy, win-win no?

I don't get the tradition argument either; tradition can be wrong, we've outlawed tradition so many times in different parts of the world, but unequal marriage is somehow different?

Straight people will still marry, have children, get divorced, commit adultery whether or not gays marry so why does it matter? It's never going to affect me personally so give them the right.

I just hope when it's finally voted on here people aren't so closed minded...
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:27 AM   #92
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What I think most shocking about Prop 8 is that it wasn't a case of 'not allowing gay people to marry in the first place' but 'taking that right away from people when they already had it.' It's an absolute example of people losing their social freedoms - this doesn't just affect gay people wishing to marry, it affects anyone who appreciates any sort of civil freedom. It shows that things people consider to be set in stone freedoms may face limitation in the future. It's depressing that, just when America seems to be making progress by electing an African American president, it takes a big step backwards too.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:34 AM   #93
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I hope to be able to read the rest of the thread later, but I'm going to voice my opinion here also. Prop. 8 is probably the most disgusting thing I've seen in a while, and I'm very disappointed that it passed.

I'm only a senior in high school, and the arguments here for Prop. 8 are just appalling. Many seniors are already old enough to vote, and many I knew voted yes. Why? The first reason is religious belief, which is a terrible reason to vote down gay rights. We have separation of church and state for a reason. Hell if your going to impose your religious beliefs on other people. The second reason is that many people are simply ignorant; they believe gays are disgusting and don't want to see them around. I also say this is a terrible reason to vote down gay rights.

I think most appalling are the ads in support of Prop. 8. It is all fearmongering and scare tactics; nothing else. Children will NOT be taught gay marriage in school. There's nothing in the curriculum saying it has to be taught. Many teachers have their own beliefs too, and many will try to stay off the topic because it doesn't fit in with their beliefs or to avoid being controversial. We're not even taught straight marriage in school; what, are they going to start teaching gay marriage simply for the sake of being controversial? Even if they did (not likely), parents can always pull their children out of these types of classes as they aren't fundamental to the curriculum. It's ridiculous that people fall for these sort of ads. I think of them as an insult to our intelligence. Sadly, it worked.

People are not voting with their heads; they're voting with their Bibles and their weak stomachs. And it makes me angry and sick about how ignorant they are. Sadly, most of my friends are Pro-8 since we live in Kern County, a very conservative place.
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:58 AM   #94
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... and the whole being exposed thing is not a good argument because in the end, it's a choice,
Er .... you sure about that?

I'd be curious to hear the opinions of people who voted for prop 8, and others elsewhere who have a problem with homosexuality. Does it simply come down to a belief that homosexuality is a choice?

Whenever someone says it's "morally wrong," I assume they think that people choose to be homosexual and choose to do something "morally wrong."

My parents are two of those people.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:05 AM   #95
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make no mistake, the "Yes" crowd ran a much, much better campaign.
My one critique about the No on 8 campaign was the slogan - "It's unfair and it's wrong". Very weak and whining. I think they could have come up with something better.

And again, it didn't pass this time, but we gained almost 9% of the vote over the last time this issue came up - only 52% in favor as opposed to 61% last time. So we regroup, rework the campaign and try again. It will happen. And I think it will be the next generation of voters that will help us out - the teens that currently are too young to vote, but are keenly aware of the issues. This was a big year for voting and the ones that were too young, I hope will feel like they missed out on something. Hopefully that momentum will carry through to the next election and they will be ready to have their voices heard.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:09 AM   #96
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Wish I'd known this was going on....

News: Prop. 8 protests continue in O.C. | marriage, church, prop, laguna, people - OCRegister.com
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:18 PM   #97
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My one critique about the No on 8 campaign was the slogan - "It's unfair and it's wrong". Very weak and whining. I think they could have come up with something better.
"It's not my right to oppress others" was what immediately came to my mind while I was in a conversation about gay marriage bans.
I used to be pro-civil unions only, but I decided back in 2004 that I honestly don't care what other people do with their lives, as long as they aren't robbing banks or killing puppies, etc..

What really got me pissed off about the "Protection of Marriage Act" here in Florida is that they now strip the rights away from families who aren't married at all. Or elderly people who happen to live together. Like the Golden Girls! I knew this state was bigoted enough to ban gay marriage, but the Golden Girls?? Come on!
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:17 PM   #98
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And didn't one state just ban adoption for single parents or unmarried couples? Not only gays, but hetero couples as well. For groups that claim their only concern is for the children, they are really hurting children by taking away potential adoptive or foster parents.

Thinking of the Catholic traditional family ideal, I know a deeply Catholic family who has a daughter (one of 9 kids) trying so hard to get pregnant and who, sadly, keeps miscarrying. This woman, instead of adopting, tries again and again to conceive. While I'm in no way judging her decision or belittling the stress and difficulty associated with trying to conceive a child and not being able to, I am commenting on the ideal that you must have your own children. This would be a great couple for adoption, but she feels she "must" keep trying and probably won't adopt. So for the states that ban single parent adoptions, here's a married couple that could adopt, but won't, and is still considered more suitable than a single parent family, leaving many kids with less and less opportunity to be adopted or brought into a foster family.

The whole idea of the "traditional" family is so strict and rigid and very frustrating. Like it's been said earlier, a disfunctional Britney and K-Fed could have adopted before a gay couple, a single woman or an unmarried couple just wanting to open their homes and hearts to children needing those things.

It's hard to understand and believe the argument that they have the children's wellbeing foremost in their minds.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:21 PM   #99
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And didn't one state just ban adoption for single parents or unmarried couples? Not only gays, but hetero couples as well. For groups that claim their only concern is for the children, they are really hurting children by taking away potential adoptive or foster parents.
That would be Arkansas.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:31 PM   #100
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That would be Arkansas.
Ah, yes, Arrrrggh-kansas.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:32 PM   #101
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That would be Arkansas.
ah Arkansas... a true bastion in progressive ideas
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:34 PM   #102
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What really got me pissed off about the "Protection of Marriage Act" here in Florida is that they now strip the rights away from families who aren't married at all. Or elderly people who happen to live together. Like the Golden Girls! I knew this state was bigoted enough to ban gay marriage, but the Golden Girls?? Come on!
But this might be what makes people think twice about this kind of thing. If straight people are affected, that changes things, that makes it unfair to people they know. Sometimes the only way to get through to some people is when they personally know someone affected by their own bullshit.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:01 PM   #103
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It clearly didn't make any impact on Florida voters at all. We received numerous ads in our home regarding the rights of the elderly and unmarried heterosexual couples and it still didn't make an impact. Take what you will from that.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:53 PM   #104
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How does gay marriage affect straight couples at all?
I have known some people opposed to gay marriage (not necessarily civil unions) for whom the fundamental mindblock appears to be that it seems "fake" somehow, an insulting parody of the real thing. It's more of an emotional reaction than an ideological one, so a bit hard to explain.
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Old 11-10-2008, 02:55 PM   #105
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ah Arkansas... a true bastion in progressive ideas
The greatest thing about Arkansas is that you can make fun of them online all you want and not have to worry about reprisal - they don't have the internets there yet. LOL PWND!
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