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Old 12-23-2008, 09:42 AM   #766
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Once again, it's completely disingenuous to tell people they should push for legislation that you would vote down.

It must be more comfortable to say you're against an agenda, even if that "agenda" is the pursuit of equality in the eyes of the law, an area where individual religious beliefs should hold absolutely no sway over those who hold different beliefs.



And blacks should have been happy to start with shared drinking fountains first. How dare they think they deserved equality full stop, eh?
i think you have the words equality and privileges mixed up.


and you should also stop using imperfect models as examples, it''s tiring and offensive to many people of color.

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Old 12-23-2008, 09:57 AM   #767
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and you should also stop using imperfect models as examples, it''s tiring and offensive to many people of color.


How kind of you to care if people are offended.
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:19 PM   #768
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i think you have the words equality and privileges mixed up.


and you should also stop using imperfect models as examples, it''s tiring and offensive to many people of color.

<>
Wrong. It's not priveleges these people are after, it's equality in the eyes of the law. Currently they do not have access to the same rights others are afforded by the law (in civil marriages), simply because of their sexual orientation, something that is not under their control.

As far as imperfect models go, I would say that using religious beliefs as justification is the imperfect model here. This country is not a theocracy.
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:25 PM   #769
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And blacks should have been happy to start with shared drinking fountains first. How dare they think they deserved equality full stop, eh?
Oh boy, here we go again. What do they want now? The right to vote? Come on'! Let them vote, then we'll have to let the women vote. Then the jews. Then the...um...well....whatever. When does it end? A society needs rules, and to give the appearance of enforcing the rules we need to keep certain types down. Why is this concept so tough for people to swallow?

Next they're gonna want to marry goats.
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:02 PM   #770
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How is marriage a privilege anyway?
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Old 12-23-2008, 05:30 PM   #771
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Because it's something only straight people get, duh.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:18 PM   #772
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Because it's something only straight people get, duh.
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:17 PM   #773
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i think you have the words equality and privileges mixed up.


<>
How is marriage a privilege as opposed to a right? What makes something a right? A privilege is something that shouldn't be available to everyone, only to those that meet the necessary criteria. It is something granted by the powers that be and that can be revoked at any time. Thus, if marriage is a privelege, the State determines who is allowed the privelege of marriage and who is not. The state also has the right to revoke that privelege at any time, as it sees fit, correct? What if the state decided to revoke your marriage priveleges?

Is it a privelege or a right to ride at the front of the bus? (Being a person of color, may I be allowed to draw these analogies?)
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:19 PM   #774
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Thus, if marriage is a privelege, the State determines who is allowed the privelege of marriage and who is not.
Well technically it does. There are all kinds of conditions imposed on who can get a marriage license (consanguinity rules, age rules, still-married-to-other-people rules, etc.).
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:55 PM   #775
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How is marriage a privilege as opposed to a right? What makes something a right?
A privilege is something that can be granted and taken away.

A right is something that exist for all.


Marriage was granted to thousands of gay Californians for a few months.

Then it was taken away.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:57 PM   #776
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I also think when a privilege is granted by th State a license is granted.

Driver's Lic =Privilege

Marriage Lic=


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Old 12-23-2008, 10:59 PM   #777
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(Being a person of color, may I be allowed to draw these analogies?)

No. You are disingenuous if you do.
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Old 12-24-2008, 03:20 AM   #778
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Is it a privelege or a right to ride at the front of the bus? (Being a person of color, may I be allowed to draw these analogies?)
Wait a minute. Let me get this straight - you're saying that diamond doesn't speak for you?
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Old 12-24-2008, 09:42 AM   #779
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Wait a minute. Let me get this straight - you're saying that diamond doesn't speak for you?
Well, he did. But at the last meeting of the African American Community we decided that he would no longer be our spokesperson. There was talk of going back to Al Sharpton, but nothing was decided.
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Old 12-24-2008, 09:48 AM   #780
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I also think when a privilege is granted by th State a license is granted.

Driver's Lic =Privilege

Marriage Lic=


<>
But aren't we talking about who the privilege should extend to? Just because it's a privilege doesn't mean that the refusing to extend that privilege to someone isn't a violation of someone's civil rights. The issue at stake isn't whether it's a privilege or a right
but whether the reason for denying the privilege is valid or not. Back in the 60's the Supreme Court decided that denying someone the privilege of marriage based on the skin color of the spouses was a violation of their civil rights.

My point is that just because something is a privilege doesn't mean the state can deny it arbitrairly. If the state suddenly decided Mormons could not marry, I'm pretty sure you'd have an issue with that. You wouldn't say, "Hey, marriage is a privilege not a right, so I guess I won't complain."
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