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Old 11-22-2008, 06:04 PM   #511
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^

Honestly this thread is a perfect example of what I meant when I was having that discussion about Sean about how it's simply not worth and not possible to change some people's minds. They are flat out bigots and discussion will NOT result in anything illuminating.
There's something train-wreck-like when you watch them try to rationalize their bigotry, it's also sad in a way; we've had a Catholic President, a Black one, we've had Jews and Women be on General Election tickets, but somehow the one thing which galvanizes bigotry from those who would accuse others of bigotry, is this one simple issue of equality.
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Old 11-22-2008, 06:12 PM   #512
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It's made all the worse by the fact that gay marriage doesn't affect them in any way whatsoever.

I must have asked 50 times here for an explanation of how it is that the societies where gay marriage has full legal protections have fundamentally changed. Nobody ever answers it.
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Old 11-22-2008, 06:12 PM   #513
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Old 11-22-2008, 06:50 PM   #514
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I must have asked 50 times here for an explanation of how it is that the societies where gay marriage has full legal protections have fundamentally changed. Nobody ever answers it.
That's because it's too complicated for you to understand.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:04 PM   #515
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Interesting:

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Thomas Sowell: Gays act like marriage is a 'right'Thursday, November 20 (updated 3:01 am)
By Thomas Sowell
Comments
Comment on this article and read what other readers have to say.
Among the many new "rights" being conjured out of thin air, a new one seems to be a "right" to win.

Americans have long had the right to put their candidates and their ideas to a vote. Now there seems to be a sense that your rights have been trampled on if you don't win.



Hillary Clinton's supporters were not merely disappointed, but outraged, when she lost the Democrats' nomination to Barack Obama. Some took it as a sign that, while racial barriers had come down, the "glass ceiling" holding down women was still in place.

Apparently, if you don't win, somebody has put up a barrier or a ceiling. The more obvious explanation of the nomination outcome was that Obama ran a better campaign than Hillary. There is no reason to doubt that she would have been the nominee if the votes in the primaries had come out her way.

As the election approached, pundits warned that, if Obama lost, there would be riots in the ghetto. We will never know. But since when does any candidate have a right to win any office, much less the White House?

The worst of all the reactions from people who act as if they have a right to win have come from gay activists in the wake of voter rejection of so-called "gay marriage," which is to say, redefining what marriage has meant for centuries.

Blacks and Mormons have been the main targets of the gay activists' anger. Seventy percent of blacks voted against gay marriage in California, so racial epithets were hurled at blacks in Los Angeles -- not in black neighborhoods, by the way.

Blacks who just happened to be driving through Westwood, near UCLA, were accosted in their cars and, in addition to being denounced, were warned, "You better watch your back."

Even blacks who were carrying signs in favor of gay marriage were denounced with racial epithets.

In Michigan, an evangelical church service was invaded and disrupted by gay activists, who also set off a fire alarm, because evangelicals had dared to exercise their right to express their opinions at the polls.

In Oakland, Calif., a mob gathered outside a Mormon temple in such numbers that officials shut down a nearby freeway exit for more than three hours.

In their midst was a San Francisco supervisor who said, "The Mormon church has had to rely on our tolerance in the past, to be able to express their beliefs." He added, "This is a huge mistake for them. It looks like they've forgotten some lessons."

Apparently Mormons don't have the same rights as other Americans, at least not if they don't vote the way gay activists want them to vote.

There was another gay activist mob gathered outside a Mormon temple in Orange County, California.

In the past, gay activists have disrupted Catholic services, and their "gay pride" parades in San Francisco have crudely mocked nuns.

While demanding tolerance from others, gay activists apparently feel no need to show any themselves.

How did we get to this kind of situation?

With all the various groups who act as if they have a right to win, we got to the present situation over the years, going back to the 1960s, where the idea started gaining acceptance that people who felt aggrieved don't have to follow the rules or even the law.

"No justice, no peace!" was a slogan that found resonance.

Like so many slogans, it sounds good if you don't stop and think -- and awful if you do.

Almost by definition, everybody thinks their cause is just. Does that mean that nobody has to obey the rules? That is called anarchy.

Nobody is in favor of anarchy. But some people want everybody else to obey the rules, while they don't have to.

What they want is not decisive, however. It is what other people are willing to tolerate that determines how far any group can go.

When the majority of the people become like sheep, who will tolerate intolerance rather than make a fuss, then there is no limit to how far any group will go.

Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. His Web site is Thomas Sowell | Home.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:09 PM   #516
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How dare those gays protest against those who openly hate them. I guess that made MLK, Jr. and Gandhi a couple of ingrates, not to mention the American Founding Fathers. They should have just sucked it up and respected those who were really in charge!

Quote:
While demanding tolerance from others, gay activists apparently feel no need to show any themselves.
And, to re-repeat from John Locke, one should not tolerate intolerance. Gay activists owe these people absolutely nothing, and must press forward to reclaim their inalienable rights.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:15 PM   #517
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Interesting:
How interesting can it be, someone who "pals around" with Limbaugh has this outlook ? Yes, that IS interesting, their opinions are just SO divergent.......


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Old 11-22-2008, 07:17 PM   #518
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But he must speak for all black men, since he's a black man.
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Old 11-22-2008, 07:18 PM   #519
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But he must speak for all black men, since he's a black man.
at least 70% in Calif anyway-but I guess that makes him a bigoted tyrant to many here.

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Old 11-22-2008, 08:52 PM   #520
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That's because it's too complicated for you to understand.
We're so simple out here in equality land.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:02 PM   #521
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We're so simple out here in equality land.
They don't even know themselves !



In addition to doctrinal concerns, Elder Clayton said the church's support for Prop. 8 did involve concerns over "the potential loss of religious liberty. How and where that would play out I can't say"

When asked about whether Latter-day Saints who publicly opposed Prop. 8 would be subject to some kind of church discipline, Elder Clayton said

"All we can say is that the LDS Church gives way to the spiritual discernment of local leaders in the handling of any matter that might involve the kind of question you have raised."

Oh yeah: "vote your conscience......" riiigghhhhtttt........
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:05 PM   #522
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Elder Clayton said the church's support for Prop. 8 did involve concerns over "the potential loss of religious liberty. How and where that would play out I can't say"
Yeah, it's kind of hard to elucidate imaginary fears.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:38 PM   #523
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Sometimes it's a waste of one's time debating certain topics with certain people...everyone knows nothing mutually illuminating will come of it, and all that results is fraying tempers and snarky jibes. Why bother? Even on the internet, you can still pick and choose your battles. Might as well go for those that at least have potential to go somewhere--if not towards agreement or compromise, then at least towards a helpful insight into how someone else thinks. Anything less than that gets pretty old pretty quickly.
Ever the voice of reason.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:28 PM   #524
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In what way do homosexuals want "more protection" or "special protection?" I keep hearing this, but I've never seen it. Not once. This isn't some affirmative action. They want equality. You want to give them "separate but equal," a demonstrably failing idea.


ok, so i'm way behind in this discussion, and i'm taking next week off from FYM, but i'm going to address this really quickly.

did you know that if i talk about my partner, that if i put up pictures of him and i, say, in Zermatt, Switzerland, or if i talk about the cooking classes we took in Oaxaca, or if i simply refer to him or perhaps relationships i've had in the past, then i'm "flaunting" my sexuality?

it's true!

and if a straight person talks about his wife, his kids, where they went on vacation, how they need to get a math tutor for their 5th grader, and how they had thought about having a third but decided against it, that person is totally *not* flaunting their sexuality.

ultimately, when gay people walk around as if they have nothing to be ashamed of, when they assume that their relationships are just as good as anyone elses, when they talk like there's more to their sexuality than simply fucking, then they are actively seeking more rights than heterosexuals, who are just normal.
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Old 11-23-2008, 06:35 PM   #525
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and if a straight person talks about his wife, his kids, where they went on vacation, how they need to get a math tutor for their 5th grader, and how they had thought about having a third but decided against it, that person is totally *not* flaunting their sexuality.
Don't forget wearing a wedding ring. That shouts straight form the freaking rooftops.
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