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Old 11-13-2008, 01:22 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by melon View Post
I quite strongly believe that the gay community and its supporters have not done enough to challenge this widely-held misconception.
OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here for a second...
With the exception of not being able to actually be married, aren't the rights to benefits the same?

I've been arguing against people who say "Well, they have all the same benefits, except....." And I keep saying that it's the EXCEPT that is the problem. We want the term Marriage to be applicable to everyone who wants to be married.

Are there other differences/limitations because of a "domestic partnership"?
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:37 PM   #227
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I'm sure he did choose to resign. But he wouldn't have made that choice had the backlash not resulted from his donation. It was choice under pressure.
Don't forget Martha, we are on the same page you and I. However, I just don't agree that he should have lost his job for it or felt he had to resign because of it.
If he was pressured, I disagree with the inside pressure from the theatre. BUT

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did he resign or was it clear that the community would no longer support the CMT because of the artistic director?


however, the citizens of Sacramento are totally free to boycott the CMT because of the artistic director.
If this is why he had to resign, well, he bit the hand that fed him, didn't he?
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:38 PM   #228
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clearly, if the fags can do it, it can't be worth shit.

which really is the message.

we are better than you. don't you forget it, faggot.
It hurts me when you say this. I know how hurt you are, and that hurts me as well.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:25 PM   #229
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It hurts me when you say this. I know how hurt you are, and that hurts me as well.


this is the message, though.

and though my specific rights haven't changed, that's the message that comes across. and one of the reason why it stings so much is that i don't live my life as if this were true -- i used to -- and one of the reasons why i don't live that way is because i have been surrounded by wonderful people such as yourself who don't believe this either.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:12 PM   #230
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OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here for a second...
With the exception of not being able to actually be married, aren't the rights to benefits the same?

I've been arguing against people who say "Well, they have all the same benefits, except....." And I keep saying that it's the EXCEPT that is the problem. We want the term Marriage to be applicable to everyone who wants to be married.

Are there other differences/limitations because of a "domestic partnership"?
My understanding is that there's currently nothing in place to replace marriage.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:37 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by u2gek View Post
OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here for a second...
With the exception of not being able to actually be married, aren't the rights to benefits the same?

I've been arguing against people who say "Well, they have all the same benefits, except....." And I keep saying that it's the EXCEPT that is the problem. We want the term Marriage to be applicable to everyone who wants to be married.

Are there other differences/limitations because of a "domestic partnership"?

I don't know each and every difference, but the main one that comes to mind is that unlike marriage, domestic partnerships are only recognized in the state where the papers are filed. And they are not recognized at all on a federal level, so you can't file a join tax return as domestic partners.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:06 PM   #232
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To tack onto that as a "for instance," I know that if your employer provides health benefits for a domestic partnership, you get taxed on that benefit because the federal government doesn't recognize the partnership. It's called "imputed income."
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:21 PM   #233
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^^ Thank you both. That actually helps a lot.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:24 PM   #234
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Rights and responsibilities of marriages in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This Wikipedia entry provides a partial listing of what marriage entails at the federal level in the US. Note, from the introduction:
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According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are over a thousand federal laws that treat married people differently from single people. It should be noted that these rights and responsibilities apply only to male-female married couples, as the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) defines marriage as between a man and a woman and thus bars same-sex couples from receiving any federal recognition of same sex marriage or conveyance of marriage benefits to same sex couples through federal marriage law.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:37 PM   #235
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Wow, even the name of that - Defense of Marriage Act - is paranoid.....

So suppose prop 8 had NOT passed, marriages would still not be recognized on a federal level for tax purposes?
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:40 PM   #236
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That's right; they'd only be valid in the individual states that recognize them (and then only in terms of state law).
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:05 PM   #237
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sign the petition here to truly protect marriage.

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A Petition for a California State Proposition that Prohibits Divorce Between Heterosexual Married Couples

Divorce destroys the sanctity of marriage and its powerful influence on the betterment of society. This proposition would keep the very meaning of marriage from being transformed into nothing more than a contractual relationship between two adults. Prohibiting divorce between heterosexual married couples will keep the interests of children and families intact. We will continue to celebrate marriage as the union of husband and wife, not as a relationship between "Party A" and "Party B." The marriage of a man and a woman has been at the heart of society since the beginning of time and it promotes the ideal opportunity for children to be raised by a mother and a father in a family held together by the legal, communal, and spiritual bonds of marriage. As a society we should put the best interests of children first, and those interests lie in traditional marriage. Permitting divorce destroys marriage as we know it and causes a profound harm to society. We should be restoring marriage, not undermining it.

And for those of you who voted yes on Prop 8 but disagree with this petition...Why? This petition is copied and pasted from literature from your website, ProtectMarriage.com, but applied to Divorce instead of Gay Marriage. So how can you argue with your own words?
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:14 PM   #238
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Pointing out the hypocrisy of the "moral" right
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:16 PM   #239
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sign the petition here to truly protect marriage.

I'll be signing when I get home.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:48 PM   #240
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OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here for a second...
With the exception of not being able to actually be married, aren't the rights to benefits the same?

I've been arguing against people who say "Well, they have all the same benefits, except....." And I keep saying that it's the EXCEPT that is the problem. We want the term Marriage to be applicable to everyone who wants to be married.

Are there other differences/limitations because of a "domestic partnership"?
I'm gonna copy and paste something I posted on another forum.

I'm going to come out and say civil unions and marriage are not the same thing. Guys remember Brown v. Board? "Separate but equal is inherently unequal?"

First off, no, civil unions do not get all the same legal rights as married couples. Civil unions are only recognized by states. That means you still don't get protection from the federal government; no tax breaks, no joint-tax returns, no benefits a married couple would have from the federal government.

But here is my bigger point. You can say "Well, they have all the same legal rights as a married couple (which isn't true), therefore they're equal." But it doesn't work that way. Civil unions are inherently unequal. Even if a civil union did get all the same legal rights as a married couple, are they elevated at the same status as a married couple? Of course not; being part of a civil union rather than a marriage is simply degrading. What if a couple was introducing themselves to you, and they say they are part of a "civil union?" The first thought to pop into your mind would be "Ohhh, thats right. It's because they're gay!" followed by sympathy (or whatever). You can't have two institutions like this and expect them to be equal. Marriage has had a long tradition in our society and is held up higher than a civil union ever will be. Just because something has all the same legal rights as another, doesn't mean that its looked upon in the same way by society. It would just be looked upon as marriage's ugly cousin.
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