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Old 11-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #211
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So the second thread is now on it's 14th page, and still all we have is:

- Defending a word.
- Folks that don't understand the definition of:
separation of church and state
or
voters rights
- Folks that don't understand the law.
- Gays will rape their children.
- Plagiarism.
- And lots of bigotry hiding behind "I have no problem with homosexuality except..."

Did I miss anything?
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by u2gek View Post

On another Sacramento note, the artistic director of California Musical Theatre, our fabulous theatre company that brings us all the touring productions and so much more has resigned amid threats of boycott. He donated $1,000 to the Yes on 8 campaign and none other than Marc Shaiman said that no more of his musicals could be produced here. While of course I disagree with the position of the artistic director, I'm saddened that he was forced to resign from his position. The director made clear that the CMT does not share the views of the AD and a boycott would have hurt many more than just the AD. I'm very proud of Sacramento's theatre community, how many local theatres we have and the professional productions we get because of CMT. I don't agree that someone should have lost their job because they disagree on this issue.
From what I read he made the decision to resign.

Just like he made the decision to cut people out of the Constitution.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:14 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post

Did I miss anything?
You forgot how complex it is.

And how separate but equal is just fine.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:24 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
So the second thread is now on it's 14th page, and still all we have is:

- Defending a word.
- Folks that don't understand the definition of:
separation of church and state
or
voters rights
- Folks that don't understand the law.
- Gays will rape their children.
- Plagiarism.
- And lots of bigotry hiding behind "I have no problem with homosexuality except..."

Did I miss anything?
I think you should save this for when we get to the 10th thread...
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:37 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by martha View Post
From what I read he made the decision to resign.

Just like he made the decision to cut people out of the Constitution.
I'm sure he did choose to resign. But he wouldn't have made that choice had the backlash not resulted from his donation. It was choice under pressure.
Don't forget Martha, we are on the same page you and I. However, I just don't agree that he should have lost his job for it or felt he had to resign because of it.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:48 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
So the second thread is now on it's 14th page, and still all we have is:

- Defending a word.
- Folks that don't understand the definition of:
separation of church and state
or
voters rights
- Folks that don't understand the law.
- Gays will rape their children.
- Plagiarism.
- And lots of bigotry hiding behind "I have no problem with homosexuality except..."

Did I miss anything?
You forgot -

Government and lawmaking by referendum is the only acceptable methodology for policy making (as long as the decisions go 'our' way)

Judges interpreting the law and constitution is a bad thing, unless their decisons go 'our' way
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:58 AM   #217
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My favourite argument is that you already have all the rights under the law (not true) so "marriage" itself would not add anything or change anything for you as a gay couple.

While pouring in tens of millions of dollars to prevent the addition of "nothing".
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:36 PM   #218
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Join the Impact - my daughters and I will be there in Sacramento sometime during the rally on Saturday. Looking forward to it.

On another Sacramento note, the artistic director of California Musical Theatre, our fabulous theatre company that brings us all the touring productions and so much more has resigned amid threats of boycott. He donated $1,000 to the Yes on 8 campaign and none other than Marc Shaiman said that no more of his musicals could be produced here. While of course I disagree with the position of the artistic director, I'm saddened that he was forced to resign from his position. The director made clear that the CMT does not share the views of the AD and a boycott would have hurt many more than just the AD. I'm very proud of Sacramento's theatre community, how many local theatres we have and the professional productions we get because of CMT. I don't agree that someone should have lost their job because they disagree on this issue.


i totally agree that he shouldn't have lost his job -- was he fired or did he resign or was it clear that the community would no longer support the CMT because of the artistic director?

the AD is entitled to support whatever causes he wants and not risk losing his job.

however, the citizens of Sacramento are totally free to boycott the CMT because of the artistic director. and if the CMT felt that he was now a liability because of what he said, well, i'm sure he could have quite a conversation with, say, Jocelyn Elders.

i have been following this story a bit -- please keep us posted.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:38 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
My favourite argument is that you already have all the rights under the law (not true) so "marriage" itself would not add anything or change anything for you as a gay couple.

While pouring in tens of millions of dollars to prevent the addition of "nothing".


clearly, if the fags can do it, it can't be worth shit.

which really is the message.

we are better than you. don't you forget it, faggot.
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:50 PM   #220
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My favourite argument is that you already have all the rights under the law (not true) so "marriage" itself would not add anything or change anything for you as a gay couple.

While pouring in tens of millions of dollars to prevent the addition of "nothing".
Well all of it's pretty ridiculous, but I think this and the reverse separation of church and state argument have to be the two silliest.

Several years from now it will be interesting to see the majority of those that are outspoken against gay marriage will have children that will just shake their heads at their parent's bigotry.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:00 PM   #221
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Theater exec Eckern, caught in Prop. 8 flap, resigns - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

Here's the link from the Sacramento Bee.

While Richard Lewis may say that no pressure was exerted by him, I'm sure that having a renowned Broadway producer blog that he would never again allow his productions to be performed here while Scott Eckern was on staff surely acted as pressure.

Again, I can't say enough that I don't support his position on Prop 8. But I am saddened that he's leaving.

If people should lose their jobs because of their personal beliefs then shouldn't it hold that Christians should not be able to work for Jewish people because we believe in Jesus? Of course not. And he shouldn't lose his job because of this - or rather feel compelled to resign from his job because of his beliefs.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:02 PM   #222
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i totally agree that he shouldn't have lost his job -- was he fired or did he resign or was it clear that the community would no longer support the CMT because of the artistic director?

the AD is entitled to support whatever causes he wants and not risk losing his job.

however, the citizens of Sacramento are totally free to boycott the CMT because of the artistic director. and if the CMT felt that he was now a liability because of what he said, well, i'm sure he could have quite a conversation with, say, Jocelyn Elders.

i have been following this story a bit -- please keep us posted.
I have been following this story, too. Here is his statement, which is thoughtful, and he seems like a decent guy, much as I disagree with him. It just really bothers me that people like him who are religious, in this case Mormon, seem not to have any real objection to gays or gay rights except for their religion, but they don't challenge their religion on it. He also seems quite naive to be surprised by the reaction his support for Prop 8 received. It's musical theatre, for God's sake. It's like a friend of mine's evangelical mother - so supportive, loves her son and his partner, even immortalized them together in a sculpture, but at the same time votes against anything and everything that will give them all the rights she enjoys. I just don't fucking get it. I guess it's that "love the sinner, hate the sin" bullshit. Denying people their civil rights is not loving, btw; in fact, it is hateful.

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I understand that my choice of supporting Proposition 8 has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal. It was not my intent. I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction. I chose to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved. I support each individual to have rights and access and I understood that in California domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage. My sister is a lesbian and in a committed domestic partnership relationship. I am loving and supportive of her and her family, and she is loving and supportive of me and my family. I definitely do not support any message or treatment of others that is hateful or instills fear. This is a highly emotional issue and the accusations that have been made against me are simply not true. I have now had many conversations with friends and colleagues,and I am deeply saddened thatmy personal beliefs and convictions have offended others. My choice to support the Proposition was personal, and does not represent the views and opinions of California Musical Theatre or the many people associated with the organization. I was required by law to identify my employer and occupation at the time of my donation.

I have enjoyed my association with all the many fine staff members, artists and audiences over the years. I have strived to stay true to our mission of producing quality live theatre to enrich the cultural live of the community. In the course of my work, I have encouraged a work environment that is safe and creative, working together in an atmosphere of mutual respect. I have focused on producing shows with fresh eyes to allow the intent of the original creators to come through. I have not imposed my beliefs onto any of the works, but have sought to explore the truths found in the storytelling to speak for themselves if they are told well. I have enjoyed the opportunity to be alongside wonderful artists as we have collaborated on sharing productions that will both enlighten and entertain.

I chose to express my views through the democratic process, and I am deeply sorry for any harm or injury I have caused in doing so. I want to support not only my friends and loved ones, but everyone in their efforts to receive equal rights so I will be making a comparable donation ($1000) to the Human Rights Campaign. I hope that through future conversations bridges may be built and healing can occur that will allow us to arrive at a better place of understanding for all involved.

I am leaving California Musical Theatre after prayerful consideration to protect the organization and to help the healing in the local theatre-going and creative community. California Musical Theatre will continue to welcome with open arms all staff, artists and audiences who collaborate in the experience that live theatre does best -- to lift the human spirit. I will continue to be in the audience to cheer on all the good work. It has been an honor to serve alongside those I love and respect in this noble profession. I am disappointed that my personal convictions have cost me the opportunity to do what I love the most which is to continue enriching the Sacramento arts and theatre community.

Sincerely,
Scott Eckern
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:07 PM   #223
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this was nicely cathartic. Dan Savage is a hero.

YouTube - Dan Savage PWNS Right Wing Bigot Tony Perkins
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:13 PM   #224
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^^He was great on the Colbert Report as well. Obviously a little different environment, but he made some great points.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:13 PM   #225
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I understood that in California domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage.
I quite strongly believe that the gay community and its supporters have not done enough to challenge this widely-held misconception.
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