Proposition 8 discussion continued

[Diemen]

...and please don't refer to this as the gay dolphin conspiracy..

I'll refer to it as another bigoted and ill-conceived argument, and an offensive one at that. In it you clearly claim that heterosexuals are superior to homosexuals in some ways. And if we're to follow your metaphor literally, then homosexuals are a different species all together. Gays are uniquely different than straights - but they are still human beings deserving of the same rights under the law.

How is it not bigoted to claim that one group of people is inferior to you based solely on an innate part of their identity? How is it not offensive to make a comparison between fish and dolphins (two entirely different species) and heterosexuals and homosexuals?

I would tread very carefully on this line of argument if I were you, diamond.

 

[diamond]

many aren't convinced that it is innate.

nor did i claim they were inferior to me or straights.

i never opposed gay unions-and encourage gays cpls to have rights that straights cpls do.

i stop at calling their unions marriage, because theyre not based on their gender.

so, this makes me a bigot?

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[martha]

i never opposed gay unions-and encourage gays cpls to have rights that straights cpls do.

i stop at calling their unions a "marriage".

so, that makes me a bigot?

Yes. Supporting separate but equal usually does make one a bigot.

 

[diamond]

The revelation:



As much divine as the Catholic pronouncement that we should eat fish on Fridays.

so this says nothing about losing their tax exempt status, onlythat the church had grown in Brazil and President Kimball led the way-and had recieved a revelation that the 12 Apostles also felt the same way.

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[Diemen]

many aren't convinced that it is innate.

Many think dolphins are fish, apparently, and they're wrong, too.

nor did i claim they were inferior to me or straights.

You are correct, and I apologize - you did not make that specific claim. However, the implication that gays and straights are not equal was indeed made. And that, along with your willingness to deny them equal rights over something as simple as the name given to their union, is indeed bigoted.

 

[Dreadsox]

I think it is interesting that somehow my marriage has not changed since same sex marriage became legal in MA. It is a miracle, that somehow we have not felt one bit dimished by the fact that the two guys living up the street together, happily married have not impacted my household at all.

Hmmmm

 

[Diemen]

Hush, Dread. We've got no room for reality checks in here.

 

[phillyfan26]

many aren't convinced that it is innate.

nor did i claim they were inferior to me or straights.

i never opposed gay unions-and encourage gays cpls to have rights that straights cpls do.

i stop at calling their unions marriage, because theyre not based on their gender.

so, this makes me a bigot?

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Just because some radicals (including, sometimes, doctors) believe it is not innate doesn't make it true. It's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be true. It is innate.

Why is separate but equal suddenly OK?

Do you not agree that it was a failure last time we used it?

 

[BoMac]

I think it is interesting that somehow my marriage has not changed since same sex marriage became legal in MA. It is a miracle, that somehow we have not felt one bit dimished by the fact that the two guys living up the street together, happily married have not impacted my household at all.

Hmmmm

On this issue, Massachusetts is about as irrelevant as Canada. Best to save your logic as there's no place for it on the Internets.

 

[diamond]

Many think dolphins are fish, apparently, and they're wrong, too.



You are correct, and I apologize - you did not make that specific claim. However, the implication that gays and straights are not equal was indeed made. And that, along with your willingness to deny them equal rights over something as simple as the name given to their union, is indeed bigoted.

Actually, by me compaing gay unions to dolphins..would by and large make their unions superior to regular marriages .



That said, I recognize gays to be unique, not inferior. My intent was to never diminish or sleight them.

Lastly I appreciate the fact that Dolphins are not fish and are superior to them. However, no matter how long one tries to persuade me that they are fish, I will remain unconvinced-the same principle applies to marriges and gay unions.

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[phillyfan26]

... What?

 

[martha]

That said, I recognize gays to be unique, not inferior. My intent was to never diminish or sleight them.

Yet you're perfectly comfortable denying them the equal protection guaranteed by the Constitution.

 

[martha]

many aren't convinced that it is innate.

And so what if it isn't innate? Your religion isn't innate, yet you're given equal protection under the Constitution.

 

[diamond]

Yet you're perfectly comfortable denying them the equal protection guaranteed by the Constitution.

How so, because I won't call a gay matrimonial union-a "marriage"?

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[phillyfan26]

How so, because I won't call a gay matrimonial union-a "marriage"?

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Because you're so worried about that word that you supported a proposition that took it all away.

 

[phillyfan26]

Let's not work in hypotheticals when talking about whether it's innate or not. It is innate.

 

[diamond]

Because you're so worried about that word that you supported a proposition that took it all away.

no, defined it correctly.

 

[Diemen]

Lastly I appreciate the fact that Dolphins are not fish and are superior to them. However, no matter how long one tries to persuade me that they are fish, I will remain unconvinced-the same principle applies to marriges and gay unions.

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You realize your metaphor makes absolutely no sense, right?

 

[martha]

How so, because I won't call a gay matrimonial union-a "marriage"?

Yep.

 

[diamond]

It is innate.

Donnie would disagree with you along with 70% of the African American voters in Cali.

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[phillyfan26]

There are a lot of people in the United States that disagree with evolution. Does that make the fact that it happened any less true? No.

 

[diamond]

You realize your metaphor makes absolutely no sense, right?

no i don't please explain.

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[Diemen]

Most people thought the world was flat at one time.

Were they right?

 

[phillyfan26]

no i don't please explain.

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You keep switching on what parts of dolphin facts you're using for the metaphor.

 

[diamond]

Yep.

Offender for a word?

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[phillyfan26]

Offender for "separate but equal," proven ineffective.

 

[martha]

Offender for a word?

Yep.

 

[Diemen]

no i don't please explain.

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Dolphins and fish are completely different species.

Homosexuals and heterosexuals are the same species.

It doesn't get any plainer than that. And I maintain that it is offensive to put forth a metaphor that essentially claims that the differences between homosexuality and heterosexuality are as significant as the differences between dolphins and fish.

 

[phillyfan26]

Diamond, what is so terrible about changing the definition of a word, in your opinion?

 

[diamond]

Dolphins and fish are completely different species.

Homosexuals and heterosexuals are the same species.

It doesn't get any plainer than that. And I maintain that it is offensive to put forth a metaphor that essentially claims that the differences between homosexuality and heterosexuality are as significant as the differences between dolphins and fish.

Yes, but most ignorant people believe that dolphins are fish, however educated people agree that they are superior.

Now, if I said that gay unions were were like comparing burros to pure bred horses-you'd have a right to be angry.

I actually elevated gay unions by saying that they deserved the same respect as marriages-and not to change their meaning which is :a matrimonial union between a same sex cpl.

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